I Have Proposed The Damages To Lee Hsien Loong For The Defamation Suit

page0001

page0002

Advertisements

199 comments

  1. PH

    Why don’t you propose instead $5000 will be donated in the PM’s name to a charity as the damages. Surely more people will benefit from it. As the people’s pm, its also positive on his end.

    • concerned

      As if the pm does not have enough money. Whats 5k on top of a 2 million dollar plus a year salary?

  2. Vincent

    If what happened to JBJ and Chee Soon Juan are any indications, you would most likely see another 1 or 2 zeroes added behind the $5000 offered. Using a sledgehammer to annihilate a hard-working honest ant serving the nation, what’s new in this government’s bag of dirty tricks to fix any opposition? If this turns out to be true, LHL will make some money. But he’ll lose a lot of votes come the next GE as this just confirms the government will never stop snuffing out opposing voices. If you ask me, in this current climate of politics, Roy has already become the David in David and Goliath, regardless of the final outcome. Why? Because he has set the ball of awareness rolling down the hill, and that, cannot be stopped with lawsuits anymore.

    • CS

      Honest?? He has already admitted there’s no truth whatsoever in what he claims to be “complete truth and nothing but the truth”. Being anti-establishment doesn’t make someone “honest”, “hardworking” or an “ordinary Singaporean”. In fact, Ngerng has already shown how inordinately dishonest and cunning he is with his own actions.

      • Vincent

        @CS, apologizing doesn’t mean it is false in fact. It only means there’s no proof. There’s a difference if you would just open up your parochial mind and escape your establishment-trapped box. Not being able to prove someone stole your handphone doesn’t mean he didn’t steal it. Do you understand the logic? If you still don’t, then I’m afraid, it’s still a long way to go before you finally come to your senses. Until then, happy dreaming in your world of the Matrix (you have to know the movie to know what I mean).

    • J.

      I agree with you Vincent, the ostensible point here is not just to make a simple political statement but to destroy a political opponent, maybe as a warning to all others (TRS watch out). If the point was to remedy an intangible harm to his reputation, he sure as hell is exacerbating it by putting himself in a David v Goliath situation. Roy was a small fish who only attracted a small viewership, but blowing this whole thing up in a lawsuit? I wonder what is in the PM’s mind, to put it in his father’s terms, is he willing to gamble votes by wielding a hatchet in this cul-de-sac? Does he think voters will forget this by the next GE? Or is he so political inadept and disconnected from the local scene that he does not see the costs of his vendetta? Poor Roy, I think he has good intentions and I admire his political passion, but he isn’t very bright, no offence, but you must recognise when to step back and when to fight.

    • CS

      Vincent, it’s good that you realised there’s no proof in what Ngerng has claimed. So Ngerng passed off unproven allegations as “complete truth and nothing but the truth”, and furthermore meticulously made them sound as though they are backed by facts. Your out-of-Matrix definition of honesty is amusing.

      • don't be stupid

        Pray tell what the fuck is “there’s no proof but it’s true”?? I think 1+1=5. I have no proof but this is nothing but the truth. Just what the fuck?!

      • Vincent

        Both of you are really not that bright, are you? I won’t waste my breath explaining further, seriously time-wasters. Unbelievable (palm on forehead).

      • Bs

        CS, couldn’t you just stop copy and paste the sentence “complete truth and nothing but the truth”. The truth could be best knowledgeable to the person, but he has no proof of it, thus he has to apologize for accuse someone without solid proof.

        If you are just a kid (no offence) there is still long way to learn and it doesn’t matter if you cannot understand it. However, make some thought and post something useful.

      • SW

        Bs,

        Truth is “best knowledge to the person”? Like you are entitled to your own facts?

      • CS

        Bs,
        If you wanna accuse, prove it. If you have no proof, don’t mislead others by calling it the “truth”. If there’s no truth, honour your responsibility by taking it down. If you’ve agreed to take it down, don’t pushing your agenda further by underhand means. If you have no balls to do any of the above, don’t label yourself an “honest, hardworking and ordinary Singaporean”. If you can’t understand this simple logic, admit that you’re as bright and useful as the Vincent person above you.

      • Bs

        SW,

        You cannot be sued if you claim “I feel fine today” as it is only the best knowledge you have. You may have virus inside your body but you still don’t know.

        If any point in Roy’s article is questionable, then give a concrete answer and make Singaporeans aware of the correct, faithful answer. It is way much better than a lawyer letter, seriously.

      • Jeremy

        @CS Well said. Trust me… many Singaporeans share your viewpoint. In fact, Roy is losing his supporters, as more and more people acknowledge that his statements has been false and misleading. I don’t mind supporting the opposition, but this guy is a joke. Seriously…. I don’t need him to sacrifice himself for me. Don’t screw up your own life, and then make it sound like you have done so to save the World.

  3. Deaf Frog's toothpick

    Damages should not be based on the earning power of the person seeking compensation nor the earning power of the person who is offering compensation.

    If the value of the compensation is based on the earning power of the person who is offering compensation, when taken to it’s logical conclusion, any jobless person can go around defaming anyone at zero cost, this is not acceptable.

    It should be based on the reputation of the person seeking compensation and the damage done to the reputation. It’s tough to put a value on it but $5000 is probably too little.

      • Vincent

        Lol, good one jimmy, give me a five. I’ll contribute a stack of $1 trillion dollar notes to the pool as well. 😉

      • nic

        As I previously said. Roy should just pay 50 dollar and take it as a personal lesson from the pm. Seeing how he tried to gain additional political ground to establish himself as a mp, I think what he should now do is to offer to cover the lawyer costs for lee hsien loong and remove all articles to put the pm in the same position before the pm is slandered. At least then, being reasonable, the pm will accept his apologies and his offer to put him back in the original position.

        It’s not fair that LHL has to pay 50k lawyer fees because he has been slandered..

      • Simon Heng

        Did he really paid $50k? I would like to see some proof before you should your mouth off again, nic.

    • Deaf Frog's toothpick

      freedom of speech does not imply freedom from responsibility.

      you can say anything you want, but ppl are entitled to sue if you present them an opportunity to do so.

      if ppl like Leong Sze Hian can go about doing pretty much the same thing (talking abt CPF) for so many years without getting sued, then obviously it is possible to do so within the legal framework.

      regardless whether it is a calculated risk which was miscalculated or otherwise on Roy Ngerng’s part, he has to be responsible for his actions.

      • Ten Seth

        Using the rich man’s game of engaging expensive lawyers, in an effort to not only intimidate, but also in a possible bid to bankrupt another person is damn ruthless and despicable. Any other country’s leader would never dare to take this path. A true and capable leader proves with results.. and resigns when there are no positive results.

      • Deaf Frog's toothpick

        Although i think $5000 is probably too little, suing until opponent is bankrupt is another matter all together.

        Where possible, the compensation amount should preferably not make a person bankrupt, because inadvertently or otherwise, it will give the impression to some ppl, that the legal action taken was not only trying to right a wrong but trying to do more than righting a wrong.

  4. Dan Dan

    The poor guy has to come out with his hard earn meager salary on top of all the embarrassment he has suffered bec he chose to stand out and speak his democratic mind. Imagine the top man has a heart to sue his own people whose parents probably voted his party to power for the last few decades. Its like the parent sues his child for insulting them but forgot to take a hard look at the way they brought him up. I will certainly be on the look out for the opposition party, hopefully they will have a heart on top of a brain.

    • Chris

      He may be poor but that doesn’t mean he can slander the PM.
      I wonder what sort of “democratic mind” is Roy having, When he slandered the PM?
      That’s not democratic to me.

      • Ten Seth

        Freedom of speech means to be able to say freely what you think.
        Cracking down on people who express their thoughts is as good as stifling freedom, creativity, and the democratic spirit.
        If there is no truth, just show it for all to see. Playing the rich man’s game to intimidate, to even possibly bankrupt a person.. is damn cold-blooded, ruthless and despicable.

      • Chris

        So, ur impression is only the rich can sue for slander but not the other way ard?
        If PM slanders anyone here, I’m sure u can sue.
        Slandering others is not expressing ur thought, creativity and democratic.

      • Bs

        If Singapore goes for a jury system, I really doubt if PM could win this case. Lawsuit is expensive and both time and energy consuming. Few people have the money and resource to play this game.

      • Jade

        Hi Chris,

        Of course anyone whether rich or poor has the right to sue, but unfortunately it is usually the rich who can afford expensive lawyers (particularly senior counsels) to sue. Many average people would like to enforce their legal rights (by suing or even having representation in other legal proceedings like divorce or probate), but they simply cannot afford to do so. Visit a community legal clinic where pro bono assistance is given, you would see that there are quite alot of average Singaporeans who earn honest livings finding it rather difficult to pay lawyer fees (with proof and income statements to back).

        I would have thought that if Roy’s post were false, the government should prove it to be false, address his points head one (which would embarass and discredit him) and accept his apology. That is a far more effective way if the government or PM wants to win respect.

        Indeed if Roy has made a mistake, I would expect him to apologise unreservedly. However, people do make mistakes (and if anyone claims never to make a slip up, its obviously a lie and even people in power are not infalliable). But I feel that insisting on a large amount of damages (even if Roy is not made bankrupt) is taking it rather too far.

        BS is exactly spot on, very few people have the resources (particuarly money and also time) to go around sending lawyer letters, especially lawyer letters from senior counsel.

      • Chris

        We’ll, roy also sent lawyer’s letters. So he also rich.
        Maybe richer, becos he started this first.

  5. bloodytruth

    heard just got rejected.. i think they not looking at how he comply, but the character & integrity behind the comply, this stupid roy is losing everything by doing such half fcuk job.. gov will not let him off for sure of the obviously fake comply.. & s’porean have no confidence on this loser on the obviously unfirm… this was the worse move on rather fully aplology or stand firm

    • dodo

      ten seth,

      haha, where did u learn your freedom of speech from???

      expressing thoughts is different from slandering. he can go on talking craps about the CPF, that is expressing his thoughts. once he says LHL benefited from the scam, it is slander. simple and sweet.

      anyway, you dun get brownie points using these sorts of techiques to get crowds to vote for you. otherwise CSJ will be your MP long time ago. argue with facts, win their hearts & minds. this dodo bird win those hearts with weak minds. but lose the strong minds.

      • Chris

        I just want to express my thoughts, Roy does look a little like CSJ. Maybe can tell better if he cuts the same hairstyle. This is expressing my thoughts too….

  6. John

    Roy, just apologize and promise never to blog about politics again. In return for your goodwill, I think PM will let the matter go without compensation.

      • Francis

        Jimmy, oh yeah sure Roy did nothing wrong. And all those pappies who said he is wrong are stupid, they are dogs and have no brains. Only those who say bad things about PAP are very smart, and that’s the trend to follow.

  7. Mikechan

    Get a collection box on 7 June…..just $10-20 per supporter will get you the $5k in no time. We will not allow our hero to pay anything to the scum!

    Sent from my iPad

    >

    • bloodytruth

      5k u tan gu gu.. this fellow diggigng own grave deeper & deeper by all the sneaky smart alec acts.. mikechan u better raise something 6 figures to save your dear zero from previous cases maybe higher due to inflation.. u cant outdo any smart tricks with them simply here is singapore

    • jimmy

      This is a costly mistake. Your situation would be better had you not publish the apology hence admitting to something you never did.

  8. jimmy

    Learn from Alex Au. So far nothing had happen to him despite all the threats of lawsuit because he never admit any wrongdoing. Just remove article and backup somewhere else.

  9. jimmy

    If I were you, I wont even pay a cent. Let them sue and I wont even bother with hiring a lawyer. Transfer all ur assets to ur mom or dad and declare bankrupt. See if they can touch ur CPF.

  10. Vincent

    I hate to break this to PAP, but whatever it does to Roy, it has already exploded this blogger from not so well-known to a country-wide awareness status. I hate to break this to the PAP, but it has already lost this war before it even begins. Why? Because every single citizen has a stake in the cpf, and if all this govt can do is to regurgitate past explanations about the cpf like a bloody parrot, more and more people will distrust the govt. And by now anyone with a brain can tell the govt will not spill the beans on the cpf secrets. No matter what. So basically, for the govt, this is between-the-devil-and-the-deep-blue-sea situation.
    Verdict: Roy -1, PAP -0.
    Forget about the lawsuit already, it’s old news.

    • COMMONER TAN

      oi vincent.. mai tok cok la. you think roy just open pandora’s box with CPF and singaporeans are going dizzy over something they don’t know?
      WAKE UP LA… the ball of awareness has always been in singaporeans’ court. For every ignorant fool, there is another who bothers to READ and FACT FIND before passing judgement on goverment policies. most here LIKE U in the anti-establishemnt camp coming out all guns blazing are just sheep in the herd following the loudest voice, and are fast becoming old news.

      Typically singaporean full of complaints… pui

      • Vincent

        Oh my, another PAP trolling dog drooling crappy logic. Whatever facts you can find is whatever the govt needs you to know. Every govt in the world has secrets and there’s a reason they don’t become your so-called “facts” because you don’t simply have no chance to see or read it. Understand now, cock-brain?
        As far as balls are concerned, they apparently only apply to dogs like you. You’re born to lick balls in this world, ah Tan. Hang out your experienced tongue and go give a good all-over lick of your masters’ balls now. Go, woof woof!! Dogs like you are what I despise most. Apart from maggots. Grow a brain one day, I bless you.

      • Chris

        Commoner tan,
        He is trying to claim credit for Roy lah. It is standard operating procedure of these kind of narcissistic individual.
        Part of the team….

      • COMMONER TAN

        oi vincent…. i thought just now you like so almighty “break news to PAP” why now sound so petty like a 12yo resort to calling names??
        don’t like to read govt facts because there hidden secrets, got external stuff to read right… IMF world bank even overseas postgrad university research on singapore… go get the unbiased view first then come and talk
        problem with people like you is you assume everyone else is as stupid as you are and only know “oh got secret = got something to hide = cannot trust”… this kind of narrow-minded logic that only gong kias possess

        and btw i am not a pap suporter but i just cant stand people who act smart but are actually stupid… sorry man

      • Vincent

        Seriously, I wonder if you are just retarded or very retarded. Logic doesn’t seem to get into your empty numb skull, so arguing with you is like arguing with a dog. They just know how I bark back at you. I did not say I’m smart, but it’s now a solid fact you are damn stupid. You are really the joke of the century. They should place you in the Guinness book of records. Lol.

      • COMMONER TAN

        oi vincent… for you and your contrived conclusions

        …………………./´¯/)
        ………………..,/¯../
        ………………./…./
        …………./´¯/’…’/´¯¯`·¸
        ………./’/…/…./……./¨¯\
        ……..(‘(…´…´…. ¯~/’…’)
        ………\……………..’…../
        ……….”…\………. _.·´
        …………\…………..(
        …………..\………….\…

      • Bs

        COMMONER TAN, you just give me a feeling that you are paid to write all this. You never touched any thing about CPF but keep calling this blogger anti establishment. People have free thought and could express their thought. Maybe it is false, but please, point out which sentence is wrong. There are so many unanswered questions, but you guys are just attacking using copy&paste style anti-establishment blah blah blah. Really not innovative.

      • boon

        Bs you mean can’t see how retarded Roy’s article is and actually need someone to point it out for you? lol.

      • Bs

        At least he spent time and effort to put information together. Despite there are some inference which is not very solid. I didn’t find any statement to be retarded. The only word which is harsh and a bit offensive is “mishandle (could be other word, but the article is removed now) CPF money”. I think $5000 compensation is way satisfactory for one word mistake. The other statements is far from within “retarded” range.

        I know many of you who are content with CPF claim that the 2-4% interest is guaranteed but Temasek / GIC has risk. However, how high is the risk and how 2% is derived, we deserve an answer. As the country’s reserve is for Singaporean and to Singaporean. Ordinary Singaporean should have the right to know the detail.

        I believe Temasek’s 6% return is moderate risk, otherwise they are really not good at managing fund. Have you heard any hedge fund manager set his return goal to 6%? How about we take a period of 5 years. If every year Temasek can achieve a 6% return, then credit back Singapore citizen 5% for the first 4 years. And then if they lose money, they still have 1 year as buffer and the margin of 1% for the first 4 years?

        There are many more could be done and I believe they are working on it. However, the lawyer letter really destroyed much of my faith. They could do a better PR, full stop.

    • KICK HIM OUT

      vincent – haven’t i told you to leave singapore? At the very least Roy has a face and put this words. you hide behind the computer and spread malicious words. you are no worse than a parasite. leeching onto roy for your 1 mins of keyboard climax.

      Be a Man, not happy with singapore, migrate. obviously u either do not have the know how or no sane countries will take you in.

      • Vincent

        If everyone migrates just because he’s not happy, you will suddenly find Singapore’s MRT become 40% less crowded. Your super lame rehashed phrase is so ef-king retarded, you know that? I don’t show my face, but at least I show my name. What about you? “KICK HIM OUT”? What kind of pathetic, imbecile name is that?? I suppose you feel climaxed if people will just point at you, look at a friend, and say “KICK HIM OUT”, is it? Weirdo.
        Anyway, just for your info, the reason why I thrash all of you trolls here on this blog is because I simply can’t stand nosey-parkers and destroyers like you, so obviously an establishment drone purposely trolling an anti-establishment website for the main purpose of flaming the writer. This is just downright despicable and abhorrent. Before this whole episode started I don’t even know who Roy Ngerng is, I’ve never read his blog. Now you see how the govt’s bad PR has back-fired? Everyone knows him now. 40% of Singaporeans at least.

      • kick vincent out

        vincent, kettle calling the pot black. u are not nosey? mmmh, what are you doing here at 2.58? oops sorry, no sex again and need keyboard to climax? poor thingy

        Sorry, you are not my friend. i choose my friends carefully and my enemies even more. u are not my friend and obviously an enemy. your have little knowledge and lack of smarts, moreover lack of grace and gratitude, obviously an enemy. out of curiosity how the hell did you get 40%? learn some statistics from roy? why not 39%, why not 90%? doesn’t really matter because you are plucking numbers out of the air. Way to go!!!

        Like i say, you are a piece so shit. good luck with your life. i won;t be replying to you so dun bother wasting your keyboard

      • Bs

        I really doubt how come a lawyer letter became the headline of Zaobao.com, this is really bad PR. Took apart the anti-establishment, defamation etc, I really feel the Media is trying to worsen the case. I never knew who the Roy Ngerng is but I find a great ton of people now are watching his blog. Interesting…

  11. Fish

    I won’t pity you. Obvious trouble maker unless you say you have mental problems I might still try to believe. I would like to know where you are living. Maybe you should offer hard tight slap on your own cheeks 100 times and make a video instead.

      • Replace Garment Trolls with Foreign Talent

        Commonr Tan, et al.,

        Oooh what a fetish.. You are really funny.. its so entertaining reading your retarded posts.

        I wonder how much they pay you to entertain us with all of these posts together with those who use names like “Kick X person Out”. I think when your parents gave birth to you and your friends, the doctor must have dropped you guys head first on the floor because i am amazed at how hilarious you and your friend’s posts are. hahaha… I hope you would reply to my post because its really amusing and entertaining to see idiots sprewing nonsense about the writer of this blog and not even bothering to show any evidence why his comments were wrong / false / untrue.

  12. jonathan how

    Slander and get off with a SG$5000 payment, expecting the victim to bear his own costs for legal fees?

    HELL NO.

  13. Lion

    The purpose of suing you for damages is not to pinch you… It is to cut your roots so you cannot stand and to ensure no other sprouts will grow from this patch of probing for the truth… $5,000.00 will only encourage your to try harder next time, I’m sure any shrewd business-minded person will know how to play this game. By apologising and submitting to offer to pay for damages will only let those who had rooted for you see you in a different light.. You were the hope that people would want to cling on yet you give people cxxx-block… Fight on like JBJ & CSJ! Stand for what you think or know is right and the rest will follow… Someone wanted a riot outside Parliament, let’s give it to him! We cannot allow men-in-white living in a different world from the average Singaporeans to rule Singapore like they know or understand how tough it is… Wake up Roy, and wake people up…

    • Chris

      ????
      Lion, u can go apply for permit in hong lim park… I’m sure u can find a few supporters. Then the few of u can discuss politics and imagine u guys are the centre of Singapore. Then drink and celebrate, cheering each other on in ur imaginary world….

      • Francis

        Nice one .. not only that, they will say those who disagree with them are RETARDS, DOGS, IMBECILES, or PAID by PAP to disagree with them.

  14. Singaporean

    Spinless faggot. A cockroach will always be a cockroach. Please stop pretending to fight for singaporean, we dont need a spinless faggot to stand up for us.

  15. fu

    Even I myself a WP strong supporter do not agree with what you do which is outright despicable act and cannot be tolerated here.

    • goh kan heng

      R u sure u are wp supporter? As a PAP supporter i disagree with lhl’s antics. He shud open the book instead of trying to shut others up. I will not vote for PAP again.

  16. Lamo

    Are politicians get elected into power all by themselves? Are we that elected them into power? So we are the BOSS and can we say something to criticize our employees about their lousy job performance such as a very low return on our investment without resorting to any high-handed civil suit of character defamation or loss of reputation.

  17. Mike

    Roy, just don’t be discouraged by all this. Just be practical and don’t be confrontational with the govt. Remember this is Singapore and not a western style democracy where freedom of speech is enshrined in the constitution.Thank you for sharing your knowledge

    • COMMONER TAN

      exactly…. can eat soft just eat soft, why let PM burn your backside?

      us singaporeans (for what our top educational rankings are worth) can discern fact from fiction….. though you spent a lot of time pulling data from everywhere and meshing it up, leading to the conclusion that gahmen is stealing from us…. some folks including me find the causality of many points questionable

      handling the situation brashly (e.g. posting P&C lawyer letters online) and being insincere in your apology (he’s the PM for f*** sake) yet want to become instant superstar NMP makes people question who you are, your backers and your motives

      hope PM lets you off the hook (which I think he would settle this privately with you) so you can move on with your stated goal of encouraging Singaporeans to think… shanmugam already throw down the gauntlet and say people are free to comment on how the gahmen is run as long as they stay within boundaries

      • Bs

        COMMONER, if you can point out which point is questionable and the real truth, I believe most people would like to know. However, don’t simply say it is questionable thus sue-able. If you blame Roy of no proof, where is your proof then?

      • sB

        Duh. It can’t be clearer that Roy has no proof and he has admitted that himself and through his lawyer. What further proof is needed?

      • Bs

        Major information in his article is about facts (which he claim to be truth, which is questionable. But majorly facts published from credible sources). Again, the only thing he should apologize is that shouldn’t attach PM Lee in person (ad hominem). Now since he apologized, PM Lee successfully proved he has no proof to accuse government to mishandle CPF money. However, there are many other open question regarding CPF money and how CPF can benefit more Singaporean left answered and COMMONER is calling it “questionable”. Yes it is questionable, but the government can choose to answer the question. But I didn’t see their initiative to do so, yet.

        By publishing lawyer letter online, I feel it is a little bit flippancy. However sending lawyer letter which is the origin of this matter is bully at first place.

    • Jade

      I agree with Mike,= and COMMONER TAN has a point here too,

      Its best to not be confrontational with the government here. Apologise for a mistake and move on, no point fighting it out and also, if the government does not address the other points raised, it really makes people wonder why. There is no shame in apologising for taking a post or write up one step too far, survive and live to write another day.

  18. Goh Kim Lian

    I suggest you see mental health specialist and submit psychiatric letter and said you were not of sound mind and that you were really sorry and will continue with long term psychiatric treatment

  19. lshj82

    Roy boy is in deep ship now. Has to go to court. haha. you said you would delete, then you did not delete, and continued to distribute slandering content. by law, PM has every right to make you bankrupt 10 times. that’s the cost you pay for becoming famous. even no oppositions will side with you.

    • goh kan heng

      As an ordinary citizen, I support Roy.
      Without him, there wont be any MPs talking about cpf inadequacy in parliament today.

  20. Deaf Frog's toothpick

    I am not a big fan of the PM, but at least he showed that he attempted to try to reach a settlement out of court.

    I was however not impressed with how Roy conducted himself during this episode, he should either

    1. stand his ground from the very start and go to court

    or

    2. comply with demands, make an unreserved apology and compensation without gimmicks.

    Instead, Roy chose to engaged in a retreat 3 steps advance 1 step “tug-of-war” with the PM which at times seems to be taunting the PM, I don’t think this is the kind of behaviour I would like to see.

    • Observer Tan

      Agree Roy is not doing this right but it has the elements of an epic saga. PM Lee just rejected Roy’s $5,000 and called it insincere. They are bargaining like they are in a pasar malam. LoL. IMHO, both are playing to the crowds. Reminds me of the show Gladiator. Maximus vs the young Emperor in a colosseum. Who will win the battle of opinions?

      • Deaf Frog's toothpick

        lol, when it goes to court, things start to get more interesting. Who will win the battle of opinions?

        well, who has more to lose?

      • Bs

        This is interesting. How to declare a compensation is insincere without a proper definition? About 2 or 3 times months salary to me is very sincere. He may not know he had provoke someone he really shouldn’t touch, but to me the offer of $5000 is genuinely sincere, because it is hard earned money, it can be the living expense for 3 to 6 months.

        Anyway I do admit the $5000 is such a small fraction of $2mil salary and it is such a small figure compared to the CPF minimum sum.

  21. Goh Kim Lian

    Roy,

    Those people who keep telling you to stand up for Singaporeans and to antagonise LHL and his lawyer…

    they aren’t your friends Roy

      • Goh Kim Lian

        If there’s anything funny that’s your ugly dick. What did you say? You don’t have a dick? I see. Now everything makes perfect sense.

      • goh kan heng

        That’s how low PAP supporters can get. That’s why calling them dogs are actually quite kind to them already.
        Constructive politics? All these mud-slingings are actually endorsed by the party leadership. Constructive politics is just a wayang. Same goes to servant leadership. Self-serving people who think they are masters can never be trusted.

      • Bs

        @Goh Kim Lian
        It is hilarious when I see online post with words like d**k. I really worry about this country’s future judging from your words. You are the one deserve a law suit for vulgarity and defamation to general public.

  22. WP

    I have follow Roy’s data and comments so far on CPF issue. I don’t agree with most of the points he stated and the way he apologise without sincerity. I personally do believe much more can be done to the CPF to further enhance its function. However I am at the same time not impress by how LHL handle the situation. I hope you can find a way out of this dire state.

    • Chris

      PM just exercised his civil rights as a citizen. No need ppl to be impressed. Although he is the pm, he shouldn’t allowed ppl to climb over his head. That’s not being magnanimous, that’s being weak.
      “If everyone slanders the pm on the same topic every other day, the fake will become “real”.”

      • goh kan heng

        He is a civil servant. At most a head of all servants, not much different from a butler.. We are the masters. Where else in the world got a servant sue his master? I regret voting PAP. Time to repent come 2016.

      • Chris

        There’s no such thing as master n servant in sg. U r free to vote whoever u want, that’s democracy.
        No need to report to us who u want to vote for lah….

      • goh kan heng

        He sign up to become a servant. A well paid one. Being challenged by ordinary citizens who feed him and give him a salary is part and parcel of his job. If he cannot take the heat, jolly well resign.

      • Chris

        There is no heat on PM. There’s heat only on Roy. It seems he’s taking it well. Hope he dun apologies and go to court. PM can’t wait for his continuous request for extension for every wrongdoings….

      • Simon Heng

        @Chris, I see you have been carrying balls for the PM. Well done.
        Why don’t you write your full name and NRIC here so that the PM can reward you with a dog bone?

      • goh kan heng

        Chris, how do you know there is no heat from PM? R u always on his behind, sensing any heat that comes out to confirm there is no heat? If yes, then I believe you. Haha..

    • Bs

      Roy may did something wrong and the data is at best controversy not conclusive. However, as a public figure, I feel the big guy is playing childish this time. I really appreciate his apology during last GE. At that time I saw hope of Singapore politics. But this action really drag it back 20 years.

      • Lim

        When you’re bitten by a mosquito, you don’t bite back. Slapping the mosquito to death is not childish, regardless of how defenseless the mosquito is. Groundless, unscrupulous attack does not deserve a gentlemanly debate in response.

      • Bs

        If you are bitten by me, you can sue me for damage. But if you slap me to death is not childish but felony and you will be sentenced. Regardless defenseless or not I am. It is not a good analogy. What I’m trying to highlight is that as a public figure, head of the public servant, he is far superior than Roy in way too many aspects. He should listen humbly to his fellow citizen and justify his policy and correct the wrong information in a professional manner. He have 100 alternative ways to handle this better, but this time he really didn’t show me good faith.

        I know it is hard to draw a line what is childish and what is not. However, playing lawyer game really looks childish to me. My 10c only.

  23. goh kan heng

    If he want to sue as an ordinary citizen, he should step down. If I were a servant, I would quit my job first before suing my boss. Similarly, I expect LHL to resign if he wants to sue.

    • Chris

      Ur logic is so strange? A pm is still a citizen becos he still vote and has a NRIC and Singapore passport.

      • GoodDoggy

        Chris, did ur master give u ur doggy bone & pet your head today? Good doggy woof woof

      • goh kan heng

        If my logic is strange, then urs is absurd. No one says he cant vote. If he wants to sue he shud step down and sue as an ordinary citizen. Whether he can vote or not is not relevant here.

      • don't be stupid

        Don’t be stupid the both of you. He is the pm why the fuck does he need to step down and sue as a commoner just to meet your expectation?

      • goh kan heng

        The point is: he has a choice.
        Dun like his job? Resign..
        By the way, did ur maid sue u when u scold her? No right? The maid always say yes mdm , yes sir, even when we are being abusive or unreasonable.
        As a head servant, all the more he shud eat humble pie and swallow his pride and ego. If not happy, step down.

      • Chris

        Why need to step down to sue? U mean if Roy slander a citizen or slander the pm is different?
        It is the same… The point is this Roy committed an offence. Period!

      • goh poh poh

        servant? if only u have 1% of his smarts.

        dun hide behind the computer, come out and say it with your name and picture. basically u are a coward!

      • Barry

        I agree with goh kh. It is very apt. Indeed, as a PM, he is not entitled to sue. He is the source of all these problems. Obama never sue and need not sue when his critics slander him and defame him. Did his standing, as a president of the United States dropped because of accusations from the people of his ObamaCare? Nope. Did he need to sue? Nope. Why? The reason is very simple. Obama is open and transparent. He does not hide. PM Lee should learn from him. Open the books and stop hiding the figures from the public. If he cannot do it, the next best thing to do is to step down. Let another person do the job. He should step down from GIC. His wife should step down from TH. Both should step down and stop sitting on this board and that board then claim the government does not know how they invest. Stop bullshitting Singaporeans.

      • Chris

        Every country has it’s own ways to sets of pro and cons.
        Why always compare with USA? U think USA is perfect? This is Singapore.
        Just becos Singaporeans who voted for pap, it’s because pap makes more sense. No need to insult such ppl, it is their right to vote. Same goes to opposition supporters.
        I dun know that u r so clear with Obama thoughts n feelings.

      • Simon Heng

        @Chris, slandering is not an offence. Don’t be stupid. There is no law and no punishment for that.
        At most, it is a civil lawsuit, not criminal.
        If LHL takes offense for an alleged defamatory article. I say “alleged” because he hasn’t been sentenced by the court.
        Be careful with your words and don’t use it any how. You will be in for serious trouble if you do not.
        But luckily this is a personal blog, not a SPH blog or facebook. Say what you want, but your comments don’t hold water.

      • Bs

        No Chris, when one decide to go into politics and become a public figure, he or she should not take action as a normal citizen. Because they have the enormous power and resources compared to normal citizen, they should be confined to keep balance the the society. You are free to sue Roy if you think he defamed you, however, public figures, better not do the same thing, otherwise it will just make normal citizen like me sick of it.

      • goh kan heng

        Chris, there is a big difference because of his status as head of civil servants. The PAP proudly put up a video with caption “servant leadership”. Now, instead of leading by example and showing humility, he is suing for the slightest borderline case.

      • goh kan heng

        This I call saying one thing, but doing another. Wayang, in short.
        I have not seen any democratically elected leader in other countries do such a thing. This is a world first. An eye-opener. The highest paid PM suing his own citizen. Uniquely Singapore. He really shud learn eat humble pie. It will only make him look small and narrow on the world stage.

  24. Martin

    Edward Snowden wannabe, but i believe Snowden put in way more effort and planning. Perhaps if you really want to find out the truth, just try to get a job inside CPF, Temasek, GIC or MAS. Anyway proof is very important when making any conclusion and statements, If not, I can just say the $50 dollar notes in your wallet is mine, then I will be rich.

  25. Girth

    It’s all a mind game Roy. Who can keep calm at the end of the day, regardless of outcome, wins this bout. Don’t let all these papee trolls affect your peace & calm. They’re here to help & accelerate their master’s cause!

  26. Tommi

    This is seriously getting absurd…. I’m a six footer since 14 years old… I have been instil this mentality that we should find somebody of my size to pick a fight… I should not be bullying someone who is below 5 feet… But if this 3 footer is stepping on my toes all these while and calling me names at the same time… Making unfounded allegations… Provoking me… Should I still sit down quietly or should i stand up at least for myself?

    LHL given his political power he would be seen as bullying regardless who the opponent is… But does that mean that just because he is a leader of a country, he does not have the right to protect his own name?

    • Tommi

      Can you imagine what happens if LHL accept the 5000 compensation…

      LHL makes 2mil per annum.
      Average Singaporean make 36000

      5000 to 2,000,000 is 0.25%

      Hence if someone defame you and goes around telling everyone you mis manage your company fund of $1,000,000 on unfounded grounds. Then apologise to you say these are unfounded allegation then offer you $90 bucks which is 0.25% of $36,000… Would you accept??

      Anti PAPers will probably reply that they will accept the apologies n do without the $90… Then great, which means I can say whatever I like… All I need is to apologise for it. If you take the $90? Then good… For 90 bucks i can say whatever that I wan about you?

      ….. Food for thoughts….

    • Bs

      Because in every modern country, politicians are not protected too well, as they gain fame and many other advantages, so by default, they are put into inferior position to protect freedom of speech. It is not about PAP or anti-PAP. If you feel someone said something incorrect, point it out politely, Singaporeans are not fools. Keep intimidating with lawyer letter doesn’t make thing any better. PM Lee may win the court case (the fight with a 5 feet), but he’ll lose more votes instead.

  27. Lamo

    Being brave doesn’t mean you aren’t scared. Being brave means you are scared,really scared, badly scared, and you do the right thing anyway.

    • yoo

      I didnt know a dog can also come in here. Who is actually the one barking here. Low IQ dog. Think before you post stray dog.

    • Chris

      U know why opposition can’t win? Besides Capability, integrity, credibility, etc… Which pap uphold.
      Most of the supporters of PM here regardless of whether they r pap supporters or not, dun use such name like “dog”… And more neutral in our tone…
      Just becos u dun win the argument, some ppl will use weird analogies, name-callings, etc…

  28. ALP

    Anyone knows ROY NGERNG background, his family? Is he married? Religion? hobby? I am curious about this person’s background and how it crafted him to be the person today. Should be an interesting read. Roy, care to share?

      • Chris

        I googled & found out more things abt him….
        Roy not just give wrong info or claims abt our pm, cpf, gic, th here. He also make many other untrue claims and theories to justify watever he advocates. Usually by omitting important information & not presenting the full reports (he quoted from).
        Wow, so this is the kind of person he is…. I see

    • Simon Heng

      That’s why LTK say there is a bullying culture here, no constructive politics.
      Roy is merely pointing out the similarities of money round-tripping various entities for both CHC and CPF.
      In fact, I want to point out a similarity that Roy failed to point out – Sun Ho and Ho Ching shares the same surname.
      This is a fact. So, don’t sue me hor.

      • Chris

        Both their surname is Ho. That’s true.
        U understand this what is true and wat is untrue… Maybe u can tell Roy.

      • Simon Heng

        Maybe I should ask you instead, since you were saying that Roy making untrue statements.
        Can you quote exactly what he wrote that is untrue?
        I really want to know, then, I can agree or disagree and advice Roy based on that.

      • CS

        Stop giving LTK a bad name by quoting them out of context. No sensible opposition would sympathise with Ngerng, even as they are no less against the PAP. Just after the part about bullying, he said: “If you support [..] mud-slinging and launching personal attacks on its political opponents, you are building a thug political culture.”

      • Fish

        Many people like to compare with other big countries. Then take a look what happens in China which is also a big country, you get locked up immediately. You site gets banned. And I dare you stand in front of their tank. Your existence will be unknown.

    • Clary Tan

      Average Singaporean citizens don’t shoot their mouths off and try to mislead others with unsubstantiated charts and graphs.

      • goh kan heng

        The average citizen wants to know the truth about their cpf.
        The average citizen dont shoot their mouth off saying something is unsubstantiated when the charts are derived from credible sources with proper references.

  29. entertained

    I am being entertained here on so many childish comments. All these thanks to Roy Nerd to bring out the beast out of everyone. You are the real Devil.

    • Francis

      yes I agree with you… it’s really entertaining here. Furthermore, to see so many of his perceived supporters egging him on to dig his own grave. Once he is dead and buried, no one will even bother to write his name on his tombstone..

      • goh kan heng

        It is more entertaining to see so many clowns juggling two balls when one person is enough.

      • goh kan heng

        I take back my words. I agree with you. It’s really entertaining indeed. Roy has no real supporters, only disappointed singaporeans who are as deluded as he is.

      • goh kan heng

        Hey, dimwit, if you want to fake me, first, get my email address correct.

    • Stop destroying my country for your vanity

      open the books for the whole world to see?

      wow oppies are really retarded

      the only people who want their cpf back probably squandered all their money and have no brains in the first place and want everyone else to look after them

  30. WP

    Although in my last post, I mentioned that I am not impressed by LHL,but the reason why I still support PAP to a certain extent is well reflected in all the post by the anti PAPs. Does calling people dogs = constructive politics??

    • goh kan heng

      You sound superficial. Calling you a dog is very kind already. There are much worse comments from fake WP supporters out there. You just need to scrollup.

    • Bs

      Not everyone anti PAP call people dogs and not all PAPer is grown up adult. This isn’t a good reason for you to support PAP. Actually think carefully. What happens if in GE2016, PAP win less than 50% seats in parliament? It is not WP who will become the cabinet. It will be PAP will looking for other party to form alliance to lead the country. Then they will indeed think carefully before taking action to protect the alliance do not break up. Any government decision after careful consideration would be better for this country.

  31. dw

    This will be the day Singapore will in trouble and go downhill as there will be more quabbles than action. Those do not have the means to move elsewhere will be left behind to suffer. Good luck.

  32. Kopi Uncle

    Constructive politics is to call people who disagree with you dogs… Please give me PAP anytime instead.

  33. Danny Chan

    Hi Roy
    I think you try to establish that the government does know how GIC/Temasek invest the fund and GIC/Temasek does know where the funds comes from, ie CPF. Is this right ? Can please help me out. What is the significance of this ? Why does it matter if they know or don’t know ?
    Base on your findings, we infer that that the government is not telling the truth, ie they know yet they claim ignorance, can we say that the government is dishonest ? Can they sue if we say that ?

    • goh kan heng

      Let me answer for Roy who is too busy now:
      “I think you try to establish that the government does know how GIC/Temasek invest the fund and GIC/Temasek does know where the funds comes from, ie CPF. Is this right ?” YES
      “What is the significance of this ? Why does it matter if they know or don’t know ?” IT IS YOUR MONEY. WOULD YOU PUT MONEY IN A BANK THAT TELLS YOU IT DOES NOT KNOW WHERE YOUR MONEY IS BEING USED?
      “Base on your findings, we infer that that the government is not telling the truth, ie they know yet they claim ignorance, can we say that the government is dishonest ?” UP TO YOU.
      “Can they sue if we say that ?” YES, OF COURSE. ITS UP TO THEM.

      • Robbing Sense

        gohkanheng

        wow, so smart. can use caps.

        u have money in the bank. it pays you interest of 0.1%. The bank lend $ to you to buy property at 1.5%. Does the bank tell you who he lent the $ to? does he give you 1.5%? it is your $$. but if bank goes burst u get back at most 20k.

        wow conspiracy. let;s organise a party…..

      • Danny Chan

        I think the bank does not tell me but I don’t think the bank would hide who it’s customers are, right ? Why should it ?

        But I still don’t get the significance of this. What is the point Roy is driving at ? If they don’t tell, so ?

        But if they know and they say don’t know, then I should sense something funny (short of using the word fishy cause I don’t want to be sued), like got something to hide.

        I guess if CPF pays high dividend, then people don’t bother. But if CPF pays so little, then people will ask why. And there should be some good answer. And if we don’t get some good answer over a long time, people get frustrated and dig in more and more. The longer this drag without good answers why the returns from CPF is so low, the more frustration, and so on…

        I think the PM thinks his reputation is important, I agree with him. I think my reputation also very important. But can please answer why CPU return so low first before he sues ?

        If we all get just 10$ from CPF, we give Roy $1/-. Enough to pay LHL or not ? Then LHL happy, Roy happy.

      • Chris

        Where got hide? Everything online.
        U think everything is a conspiracy. U dun know how to read is it???
        U ppl read too much novel.
        U wanna make a movie?

      • Bs

        “What is the significance of this ? Why does it matter if they know or don’t know ?”
        Because it is your money. You hard earned money. Don’t always say the money still belong to me if I cannot use it to pay my medical bill at my will. Pay for rental / PUB services. Pay for Kopitiam. I behave the same as tax. Once I get my money outside my pocket, I no longer have access to it.

        Don’t say I can pay for mortgage. Firstly the housing price is intentional inflated not to mention I may not afford a house. When I cannot afford the down payment, I have totally no access to my CPF.

        Even for my daughter’s delivery, the CPF board ask me for minimum sum before I can claim MediSave! Minimum sum again huh!

    • Robbing Sense

      danny chan,

      try this, pick up the phone and give a call to yr friendly POSB and ask them who their customers are. good luck.

      i feel you are lost and not out to make fun, so let me explain a little bit. Apart from the slander and 100 pages of bullshits, Roy raised 2 questions. why interest rate is so low for CPF and where does GIC/Temasek get their funds.

      For the first question, CPF can only invest in funds called Special Singapore Government Securities. These are 100% guaranteed by the Government. No risks, that is why the returns are low. The problem in the last few years is that inflation has been high. eroding the value of money. (the best FD is now about 1.2/1.5%, so 2.5% is generous) In some countries the pension fund are invested in bonds beating inflation rate. So unless the mandate is changed, otherwise CPF cannot change their investment strategies. However, as an individual, you can use CPF money to buy bonds, shares and funds. technically these can provide higher returns but there are risks. remember high return = high risk. since CPF $ is for retirement, you sure do not want to end up at 65 with investment wiping out your $$$$.

      As to where GIC/Temasek get their funds, that is an area that is not clear. funds are allocated by the government and is not made known. this is a reason. You need to also realise that Singapore dollar is not back by gold, Interest rate. instead, Singapore dollar is fully backed by international assets to maintain public confidence. So if the way reserves are allocated is openly known, traders/hedge funds can easily attacked the SGD$.

      think of it like the army, we don’t tell the enemy how many tanks, soilders we actually have. Making it known to every singaporeans is as good as telling the whole world. Same for financial deterrent. But seriously this is not the layman issue. you want a stable currency and returns from GIC and Temasek to fund our budgets. the government needs to look into cost of living and retirement.

      good luck to those who gets it and too bad for those who don;t and choose to believe in conspiracy.

      .

      • goh kan heng

        Hey nameless, what do you understand by no risk? When Iceland collapse, what happen to the people’s savings? When US did QE2, what happen to their currency? To say that there are no risk is like selling koyok. U know, medicine oil? When GIC and TH made high risk investments, we are already bearing all the risks because if these entities fail, it is the government that will bail them out. Whose money is being used? Our money. Whose reserves? Our reserves. Dun give me this bullshit story. At the end of the day, if PAP government is gambling with our money, we deserve to share the profit because we bear all the risks.

      • Chris

        Hi robbing sense,
        It’s no use talking sense to these ppl. They r living in their own world.
        Every sensible countries have some sort of pension, social security funds or such. But these ppl dun believe in any of these… Becos they dun believe in risk free investments by any govt of the world. Wonder if we can separate these ppl from the rest of us. Then they sign a binding agreement not to receive any help from Singaporean govt for better or worse.
        There is no countries for ppl like them. Maybe only war-torn countries becos such countries will not have such funds….

      • Danny Chan

        Crazy. Of course the call centre people won’t know where the money goes too. You are very patronising to think that I’m that stupid.

        But if the PM and the ministers sits in both organisation, then effectively, the are the same, just called by different names. As a layman, I can understand that.

        But why they say they don’t know and I still don’t understand what is so important – if they know, then what ? And why they say the don’t know when they do ? Like a mystery story. Hope someone can explain better to me.

      • Monkot

        Hi Danny,
        Its very simple. They just pretend not to know so that they don’t have to be accountable when TH and GIC loses billions of your money. $40 billion in citibank shares, Merill Lynch shares, all down the drain. Buy high sell low strategy. These people cannot make money by investing in companies outside. Their only sure win strategy is to “invest” in local GLCs like SMRT, Singtel, SBS, Keppel. If these companies not making money, they pump in money. $1.1 billion recently. Then the recent changes. You see SMRT and SBS share prices soar right? That’s how GIC and TH earn profit. Through stupid Singaporeans who voted the PAP. Then you see why our transport fares keep increasing but service standard keep dropping. That’s how they milk us to earn profits. They also refuse a Singaporean first hiring policy so that they can import vast numbers of cheap third world labour and PMETs into our country and pay them third world wages. Your wage, my wage, can never go up because of this. So, the only solution is to vote out PAP to change all these.

      • Chris

        The thing is these ppl will not opt out of cpf even if govt give them this option. Judging by their penmanship, they r not ur normal uncle, aunties or uneducated ppl. So they know they can’t get the interest rates being given in most other available investments.
        It’s rather those who need the most help who may opt out.
        Having said that being govt, it can’t b as irrational to do that…

      • Bs

        @Chris
        I can make my own living and I’m 100% sure I’ll opt out. I could invest in a basket and now ANZ AU$ fix deposit for 1 year is giving 3% interest. Not to mention Singpost is giving avg 5% dividend every year. You have lots of channels to make returns way better than CPF. I’m not standing for anyone else. I just want to mention I and my wife will opt out if given a chance and we are confident to live a better life.

      • Bs

        @Robbing Sense
        Don’t you think it will be much easier to fulfill the 100% guarantee when you purposefully inflate the inflation? They only guaranteed your paper value and doesn’t allow you to evade the inflation by purchasing US$ or precious metal. When they feel it is hard to fulfill the guarantee, it will be simple to inflate extra then they’ll have more paper value to pay you back. Considering how much chicken rice your CPF can buy 10 years ago and 10 years later with current inflation rate and CPF interest, you’ll know by current pace, they are 100% guaranteeing you money will worth less down the road. Don’t be fool by the 100% gimmick.

    • Dodo

      Bs, if you are so good at investing, the $ in CPF is really chicken feed.

      free advice, investing in currencies has exchange rate risk. thieves from alibaba may steal all the gold from Singpost. Your dodo head seems to be able to process 1 digit number.

  34. Deaf Frog's toothpick

    there is no such thing as guarantee of 0% risk, there is only 0% risk in theory, and on the paperwork of financial instruments.

    a guarantee is only valid if the entity that gave it still exists.

    only the entity that is certain of emerging victorious in a world war can give such a guarantee.

    if a SWF makes a series of miscalculations and is no longer able to come up with the money to pay the pension fund from which it borrows the money from, then what is the value of the guarantee given by the pension fund to it’s members?

    • goh kan heng

      That’s why I said all these talk about CPF investing in low risk SGS is hogwash. The entities behind are taking much higher risks. If they fail, government will bail them out. So why shouldn’t the gains be shared with cpf holders?

      • Tards

        Because the idea if CPF lies in the fact that even if your money is used to invest in some riskier financial instruments and they default, you still get your fucking money that’s why the gain is so fucking low.

      • NKL

        Re-tards, you are right, except that the money you get back becomes worthless banana notes when they default. It is a Re-tard not to ask for higher interest rate.

      • Dodo

        Goh dodo, you dun even pay taxes, what rights do you have?

        go and focus on working. stop day dreaming, your boss is calling!

  35. Kopi Uncle

    I don’t think the PM ever prevented you from blogging. In fact there was no issue so far. Anyone can write what they want about how good or bad the CPF scheme is. It is saying that he embezzled money which is defamation. This is consistent with defamation laws in any countries in the world.

  36. Where the money goes

    you already lost the defamation suit when you confessed and apologised for slandering the PM.

    now you want to make the ignorant pay for your big mouth?

    CPF discussion won’t be heard in court lah.

    Instead, your entire background will be exposed for the world to see.

    You don’t even understand law and courts. Here is your chance to show the world how little you understand about the CPF as well.

    Tens of thousands of civil servants in CPF, GIC, Temasek who also contribute to CPF, and none have blown the whistle but you Roy, a healthcare worker, know everything!

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s