Is The CPF Really A Sustainable System?

The Straits Times wrote an article to explain how the CPF is a “sustainable” system:

CPF Sustainable System

But is it really a sustainable system? Here’s another side to the story:

CPF Unsustainable System

So, what do you think?

To read more about how the government’s response on the CPF still does not address the real issue of the inadequacy of Singaporeans’ retirement funds, you can read this article.

This coming Saturday, an event will be held to advocate for the transparency of how the government really uses Singaporeans’ CPF and to ask the government to be honest to Singaporeans about what is truly happening to our CPF.

Do come down for the event. For our rights and our freedom, and for Singaporeans to be able to obtain answers from the government, please do come down. Since the last event in early June, Singaporeans finally learnt that our CPF is indeed invested in the GIC and the government finally admitted to more truths about our CPF (more will be revealed in an article coming up).

For the whole truth and nothing but the whole truth to be revealed, come down this Saturday. Show the government that Singaporeans will no longer be pushed around no more, and demand honest truths from the government.

You can join the Facebook event page here.

#ReturnOurCPF Poster@pink final

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37 comments

  1. landragon123

    The CPF is definite a sustainable as we are forced to contribute. and when late there is a fine and when you did not paid you can be sue in bankrupt and there have the 1st charge in any court case that involve CPF.
    CPF can be even consider a Money game that never loss jut like Casinos never lost. But the capital for Casino is high and he highest is in Singapore where MBS cost $8+ Billions to built and RWS cost more than $7 Billions. The most expensive building outside of the Casinos is the Dubai Tower cost only $3 billions and the builder when burst and it was the Emerate KING who bale it out. CPF is like the COE, not capital but just collect and collect whereas Proton boost to LKY that Malaysia Car, LKY told them our factory is only a piece of paper and any amount can be written to collect the COE, ERP, Road Taxes, Import Tax, leavy and so on and Negatives ION as at http://www.idragon111.com,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

  2. Richard Charles

    If I were a sales person representing a company that develops the “secret formula or recipe in making a product”, I will try my best to make my product sound & look good to make it sell. As long as the flow of income to me & my colleagues is sustainable, whether it really benefits the customer or not doesn’t really concern me as long as the customers don’t realize the bad part of the products. Now compare this with when the customers actually specify what kind of product (specifications etc) & instructs the manufacturers to produce accordingly. Which system is more reassuring?

    • landragon123

      Richard, Negative ION is a patented product and only one country in Europe produce it. The Japanese claimed that there invented it about 25 years ago. This Negative ION clothing is in Europe of more than 50 years and there sold it as a Winter Clothing. The Japanese putting a False claim and now have to stop production as when you SINNED the Sky will come to tells you about it and there now knew and stopped production. But their cheating never stop and now there are trying to sell Infaray goods and claim it to be Negative IONS. Only 1 fiber produces Negative Ion and that is Synthetic Fiber or common name is PVC.
      Land Dragon Pte Ltd, is the Trade Mark owner of IONegative Clothing and we sell it at 101 Upper Cross Street #03-47 People’s Park Centre (at the link bridge to Chinatown Point) Come visit us as Sales is now on for my 70th birthday celebration for the month of JULY only.

      • landragon123

        We never sell FAKE or FADE products as my product is LIFE long in producing the Negative ION as it is the Fiber that makes the Clothing will continuous products static energy as long as it is wash with the right detergent and it is only Plant Base Detergent no chemicals at all.

  3. Independence

    It is really the CPF members underwriting the government investment. The reason is very simple. The net cash flow every year is always from CPF to government. So called interest does not mean a net cash flow coming from GIC to CPF. The interest rates are just book numbers. The real money is going from CPF to government. So who is supporting who? We CPF members are paying for the investment habits of the government.
    We really need to have an independent CPF board that will take care of our interest. The GIC invest for the government and not for us. We need an independent CPF Board that will invest for us and not for the government.

    • Deaf Frog's toothpick

      @ Independence
      on the issue of an independent CPF board, I suggest electing an independent commission to take on a supervisory role on the SWFs instead.

      the commission shall be elected by the citizens via a election once every 2 years.

      the independent commission should be given enough immunity to be free of political interference.

      given enough resources, means and “bite” so that it will not end up as a talk-shop, paper-tiger + rubber-stamp.

      it should answer directly to the electorate only.

      this commission should consist of a minimum of 01 person from each of race in Singapore, existing MPs can be allowed to run to sit on this commission but every political party is only allowed a maximum of 01 seat on the commission.

      anyone with conflicts of interest including family members of employees or management of SWFs will automatically be banned from running.

      this commission can replace the elected president.

  4. Warren Buffet Versus Ho Ching's Investing Talent

    “We really need to have an independent CPF board that will take care of our interest.
    The GIC invest for the government and not for us.
    We need an independent CPF Board that will invest for us and not for the government.”
    @Independence

    – CPF Board don’t have to work very hard
    – Just buy Berkshire Hathaway shares
    – and you will get the investment genius of Warren Buffet working for Singaporeans for free.

    Who do you think is a better investment manager?
    Warren Buffet or (heh heh heh) Ho Ching?

  5. The Oracle

    Step right up folks!

    “For the whole truth and nothing but the whole truth to be revealed, come down this Saturday” – except Roy’s position is based on lies, half truths and made-up statistics. Some of his points may have some truth in them but the “whole truth”? No! Again and again I’ve pointed to the holes in his arguments.

    Just one example: Sustainable versus unsustainable. Singapore’s system is sustainable based on reasonable financial projections. In the UK though, the government pension scheme is actually a Ponzi scheme – there is NO saving or investing! All the pension contributions collected from taxpayers this year will essentially go to pensioners this year. This might even be fine if your population of taxpayers keeps growing at the same speed as your population of pensioners – but the working age population is shrinking and people are living longer. Their only answer? To keep raising the retirement age! The government there has already set in motion increases to age 68 and there is talk of raising this to 70 and beyond – they simply can’t afford their current essentially bankrupt system!

    You won’t hear from Roy about the problems faced by workers in other countries though – as according to him it is a worker’s utopia out there beyond Singapore’s shores.

    I’m not saying our system can’t be improved – it can certainly be tweaked in various ways – but do be careful what you wish for!

      • Deaf Frog's toothpick

        “Rabid Roy dog who can’t handle criticism.”

        i think this sentence beautifully captures the frustrations of a fan like a well taken photograph.

    • Xmen

      I’m not sure what point you are trying to make here? How do you know that UK government pension scheme is a Ponzi scheme? Can you tell if CPF is NOT a Ponzi scheme? Smart guy.

  6. Elaine

    Let me ask all you readers a simple question:

    IF THE GIC LOSES 90% OF ITS TOTAL INVESTMENT, WHO IS GOING TO BAIL THEM OUT?

    • Deaf Frog's toothpick

      @ Elaine

      if that were to happen, we can import 10million FTs to bail us out.

      they will inflate the property market and our ppl can sell out to them, paul pay peter, government will not have to spend a single cent.

    • PAP Govt Will Bail Out GIC

      And then PAP govt will increase bus fares, taxes and any other prices to increase PAP govt. revenues.
      Besides increasing taxes, social welfare spending will be cut.
      COE & HDB flat prices will increase.
      These are tried and tested methods for the PAP govt in achieving a budget surplus every year for the last 50 years.

      PAP govt bails out GIC.
      Singaporeans bails out the PAP government.
      Singaporean voters are dumb fucks. Stupid people who deserve to suffer and be exploited by their government and the newly arrived alien talents.

    • Chua

      Being private limited , no one need to. They will be bankrupt. Temasek holding will be bankrupt before then given their high risk exposure. In that hypothetical situation, we are in 2nd great Depression, when bank runs occurs. Bank deposits and insurance will be long gone before this happens. Money may become worthless and only physical gold and commodities survive. With no natural resources to fall back on, Singapore is gone.

    • The Oracle

      If GIC loses 90% we would probably be facing WWIII and all investments everywhere would be in trouble – it wouldn’t just be a Singapore problem. But even then the CPF bonds would be paid by the government so our CPF accounts would be OK. Instead though, other things would go up in price.

      • Elaine

        I go casino take huge risk with my life savings and when I lose, no other person will be in trouble because I am the only one taking huge risk. Similarly, if GIC takes huge risk with our CPF money like no other SWF, then when it makes the wrong bet with our CPF, it would be a Singapore problem. Where would the government find the money to pay us except to print more money? So when GIC takes huge risk, does it not equate to CPF holders taking the risk? If CPF holders are taking the risk that GIC is taking, then shouldn’t we get the same interest rate that GIC is earning?

      • Xmen

        “If GIC loses 90% we would probably be facing WWIII and all investments everywhere would be in trouble”

        Enron blew up, it didn’t bring down the stock market. Argentina blew up, it didn’t bring down the world economy. GIC blows up, you think it will start a WWIII?!!! Go get a life.

      • The Oracle

        Cause-effect – you got it wrong. Given the nature of GIC’s investments (which are known) it would take something like WWW III for them to drop 90%.

      • Xmen

        The Great Recession did not cause WWIII. Why must there be a WWIII for GIC to lose most of its investment values? AIG, once the world’s largest insurer, went under during peace time. All it takes is some incompetent government to lose the investments. And we are getting awfully close at .5% annual return which is a negative inflation adjusted return. It takes only 16 years at 4% negative annual return to reach 90% loss of principle. Now we are into the 6th year…

  7. Chua

    I think our Minister had made it fairly clear on many of the queries, in no small part, due to Roy’s sparking renewed interest in this issue.
    Credits where it is due. However, it seems abundantly clear the low returns is fairly sustainable because it is low returns. Whether that is sufficient given the inflation and cost of living for the large minority is the main problem. Given that this is a compulsory savings plan, if it does not match inflation, even with the best of intent, it is losing value. Do we have a higher return similar risk option globally? I don’t think that exist currently for huge amount of funds. In short, bad deal but no better ones available.

  8. Why Do We Need Compulsory Savings?

    I see no justification why savings have to be compulsory in a democratic country.
    There should be a choice.
    You can put your money with CPF or you can take it out anytime you want.

    Just like PAP government can anytime give $1 billion dollars to SMRT and SBS Transit to buy new buses.

    • The Oracle

      No compulsory saving means uncles spend it on their mistresses in Batam then come home and cry to the government for help when the money and the honey is gone!

      • PAP Govt Give Free Money To SBS Transit and SMRT - Why Not Singaporeans?

        What about SMRT and SBS Transit?
        They got no money to buy new buses because they gave away all their savings to their shareholders as dividends.
        If PAP government can bail out SMRT and SBS Transit with $1 billion dollars;
        Why can’t PAP Government bail out Singaporeans.

        Actually hor.
        The answer is very simple.
        The PAP government hates Singaporeans.
        It’s the Party Against People.

      • The Oracle

        Rubbish – but you will keep believing it. Nothing was underhand and it is already stated policy for the government to fund the capital side of our public transport infrastructure and for the operators to operate and maintain it. This overall keeps bus and rail fares much lower than they would otherwise have to be – which is better for the lower and average paid Singaporean. It is richer Singaporeans, who pay various high car taxes, who fund this.

      • Deaf Frog's toothpick

        @ The Oracle

        your batam argument implies that women, homosexual men and impotent straight men can get back CPF.

        i would like to see you put it into action.

        whats the next story you are going to cook up to demonise our fellow Singaporeans?

      • The Oracle

        It’s a scenario and was meant to be humourous – but you failed to understand either point. Oh, and your logic is incorrect and ridiculous.

      • Deaf Frog's toothpick

        @ i don’t think uncles find it funny, i do not find it funny either.

        according to you, taking reference from what happened to Michael Palmer and Lin Sin Pang, we should withhold 99% of minister’s pay to protect them from being targeted by mistresses, they can collect all the salary in lump sum at 85 years old when we are quite sure they are safe.

    • Xmen

      You have a point – “Why Do We Need Compulsory Savings?” The Oracle is just a mini Tharman busy defending the indefensible.

      Why stop at compulsory savings? How about compulsory college funds? Compulsory housing funds? Compulsory 3-Meal allowance? Compulsory healthcare fund? Compulsory unemployment fund? Compulsory insurance fund? Compulsory rainy day fund?…

      Why don’t we just give our wages to the PAP since it cares so much about us spending money on the “right” things instead of wasting it on some mistresses? Is the PAP now the Communist?

  9. Chua

    Question raised and unanswered is the remuneration of the GIC Board of Directors which are generally Ministers. Also, are Singaporeans willing to place their retirement funds in higher risk funds outside the framework of CPFIS which may generate higher returns in good years but with fairly high chance of going negative during redemption period.

    • The Oracle

      I actually agree all CPF, GIC, Temasek and other board salaries should be public.

      Not sure about your other point but most Singaporeans who have enough spare funds tend to buy property – mostly overseas now because of restrictions here (Singaporeans number 1 foreign buyers in Dublin, number 3 in London, etc.). Property is seen as “safe” so we can imply that Singaporeans generally (not all but most) want safe investments.

    • More PAP Bullshit

      “Also, are Singaporeans willing to place their retirement funds in higher risk funds outside the framework of CPFIS ”

      Does GIC and Temasek invest only within the framework of CPFIS?

  10. landragon123

    Nobody needs to bail as our CPF contributions are a continous flow of funds for PAP and Ho Chiang to use as there like. The annual interest is just paper value as we cannot take our money until we kick the busket.

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