Did Temasek Holdings Use Singaporeans’ CPF To Invest?

Did Temasek Holdings use Singaporeans’ CPF to invest? You can read about this here.

Temasek Holdings Did Invest CPF

淡马锡控股有用新加坡人的公积金去进行投资吗?你可以在这里阅读关于这件事情

新加坡政府说淡马锡控股没有用新加坡人的公积金去进行投资

在目前政府处理我们的公积金政策情况下,我们不可能放弃斗争而要求政府对人民采取透明化和可信任的政策的。新加坡人有权知道事实的真相。假设今天我们无法退休是因为我们没有足够的公积金,那么,我们有权知道政府是如何动用我们的公积金的真相!

We cannot let up on our fight to demand to the government to be transparent and accountable to Singaporeans on what exactly they are doing with our CPF. The facts need to be known to Singaporeans. If today we cannot retire because we do not have enough in our CPF, we need to know the facts about what the government has been doing with it.

我们将于2014年8月23日在芳林公园举行的第三场《归还我们的公积金》集会。在2014年6月7日的第一场集会,我们的演讲者已经向您们揭露了政府终于最后承认他们是如何动用我们的公积金投资在GIC。在2014年7月12日,我们举行的第二场集会,我们的演讲者暴露了更多的信息有关许多新加坡人的公积金户头无法达到最低存款的要求的原因。

On 23 August, there will be the third edition of the #ReturnOurCPF event. In the first edition on June 7, the speakers revealed to you the facts that the government has finally admitted to how they are using our CPF to invest in the GIC. In the second edition on 12 July, we exposed further information about the estimated number of Singaporeans who were not able to meet the CPF Minimum Sum.

请出席的第三场《归还我们的公积金》集会。我们将会进一步揭露更多有关我们的公积金被用在建屋发展局的住房建设令人惊奇的事实!以及为什么新加坡人无法安心的退休是由于建屋发展局造成的原因。

Join us at the third edition as we reveal even more glaring facts about how our CPF is being used by the HDB and for housing, and find out why Singaporeans are not able to retire adequately, because of the HDB.

您可以到FACEBOOK的网页报名参加

You can join the Facebook event page here.

Return Our CPF 3 Poster Template with Text edited with Title

Return Our CPF 3 Poster Template with Text edited with Title@Chinese

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111 comments

  1. Xiao liao

    Your father give you a job as clerk in his bank. With the salary earned, you buy a house that built by your uncle where your father is the consultant (surbana). You cannot afford to buy a car and you take public transports that owed by your father. Therefore your father is stealing your money, and you better kill your father.

    Thanks for the great logic

    • Haha

      Don’t you know? What your father earns belongs to you! He must share the bank profits with you!
      Otherwise you’ll have to wash toilet bowls when you retire!!

  2. jasmine

    Today, a HDB flat cost $300,000, $200,000 goes to paying for the land that Singaporeans do not own. WORST STILL, HDB is high-rise high-density building. Each housing unit effectively occupies less than 10m² of land. For flats in Pinnacle @ Duxton, that is less than 4m² of land per flat. 4m² is the size of the laundary area.

    Can you imagine paying $50,000/m² of land to the government? The going rate will be much cheaper for a Good Class Bungalow ($20,000,000 / 1500m² = $13,333/m², freehold somemore), if you can afford it, like our Jet Li or Gong Li. Why are the poor subsidising the rich for land which they do not own and for a flat which they are just leasing from the government?

    The PAP government needs to open up its book. I bet this is Mah Bow Tan’s idea which our $8 Mr Khaw fully supports. What cooling measures? Singaporeans are being fooled.

    • Deaf Frog's Toothpick

      @ jasmine

      yes, HBD flats are not strata titled, it’s not the same as leasehold condo, so why are we paying for the land?

      when condo owners sell their units they are selling their share of the land title, the car park lot, the swimming pool, the playground & etc.

      HDB dwellers are lessee, they have no share of the land title, they do not own anything, but only “own” the long term rental contract.

      HDB owners cannot en-bloc to private developer, so why are they paying for the land which they have no use for and does not own?

      what is the point of paying for something u cannot utilise?

      so why is there a LAND COST$$ in HDB units?

      why are we paying for the land?

      • jasmine

        Precisely. That’s why I say the PAP has hoodwinked and fooled the 60% for decades. We need to spread the gospel truth to them.

        This is the hearttruth.
        The truth that never see daylight on the news.
        The truth that has been covered up for decades.
        The truth that has been denied by the government.

        On the other hand, the hardtruth must be erased.
        That is the lie that the government has expounded for years.
        That is the lie that has blinded many Singaporeans.
        The lie that brought untold sufferings to our people.

        Just look at the proportion of elderlies having to collect empty drink cans from rubbish bins in their twilight years compared to any other third world country.

        We ARE a THIRD WORLD Nation now.

    • jasmine

      @Chris, everything you wrote has been debunked by us. Educated readers just need to go back and read all previous comments to see the clown you are.

  3. Singaporeans Cannot Win From High HDB Prices

    The 1st generation father win from the high HDB flat prices.
    The 2nd generation of two children lose because of the high HDB flat prices.

    1st generation = father = one family WIN
    2nd generation = 2 children = two families LOSE.

    Typical PAP policy.
    Give one chicken wing to one generation.
    And then take back an entire chicken from the next generation..

  4. supporter

    Uncover the truth, let the people judge.
    btw, Roy, hope you drop me an email for the further discuss , tks.

  5. Jackfruit

    you write so much, even though it is garbage it still takes a lot of effort. is there an organisation backing u with some political agenda?

    • supporter

      his organization are included the children, the elderly , great majority are not being treated well. it is about 90% was ignored. the agenda is Temasek belongs to the people.

    • Deaf Frog's Toothpick

      @ Jackfruit

      In this world we truckloads of ppl who cosplay as journalists, they write truckloads of longwinded bs articles for newspapers ranked below Singapore (which is ranked 150th in 2014) on the press freedom index, does anyone believe they have less backing and political agenda than you?

      • Chris

        Wow, xxxxtoothpick!
        all ur argument were debunk not too long ago. And u r still at it. U r just like Roy. A MOROON?
        And jasmine, no one force u to buy HDB or condo. In fact, no one force u to stay in sg? Wait, r u even Singaporean? We won’t know, right? Neither do u know if I’m a Singaporean. The way u write is as if u r an uneducated fool.
        Every thing u ppl wrote had been debunked by me and others. Just becos u r writing on a new article by idiot Roy, u think u can ‘smoke’ ppl? Maybe, if every Singaporeans r uneducated. Unfortunately, education is a cornerstone of Singapore. So too bad.
        Lastly supporter, if u think 90% r like u then u must have been sleeping the pass 49 years. U and ur friends r the minority. And u and ur friends r getting on the nerves of the majority.

      • Deaf Frog's Toothpick

        @ Chris

        LOL, what happened to you? u used to sound more intelligent, now u speak like a scarred animal that just emerged from Sam’s Alfresco Coffee.

        oh, u still into this debunking thingy? i forgot, thats your job, no problem, i derive great pleasure from subjecting clowns to the sharp hatchet i carry in my bag.

      • Chris

        @xxxtoothpick,
        Intelligence cannot diminish. That’s a fact of life.
        Well, debunking untruth is not my job. As u can see my presence here is not as often as before. I do not derive great pleasure to apply ur sort of violence and lies to clowns like Roy and friends.
        Rather I’d like to highlight to everyone that a lot of falsehood here were actually debunked. So, if ppl want the truth. They need to read the historic comments or go to the official websites instead of here.

  6. supporter

    We noted that the first month, local writer wrote a letter to Prime Minister Lee, citing deteriorating conditions , Please let this jobless boy stay back.

    however , Prime Minister Lee refused to let go, start vicious .today, Prime Minister Lee sued Roy is suing all of Singaporean.

    our question about CPF, about Temasek Holdings, CPF is people’s CPF, Temasek Holdings had shifted people’s CPF. that is our ordinary people’s agenda .

    Prime minister Lee: Can Singaporean ask ? if Singaporean can not ask, who can ask. our last generation can not ask, what time can ask . the few who benefit-sharing never ask, the most majority are excluded of interests must ask .

    because of an outstanding question , Prime minister lee wants to kill people again ? today, you kill Roy, is killing our people. the Justice in our side.

    • Chris

      Supporter, r u an idiot?
      If Roy represent all of Singaporeans then why so little ppl support his stupid HLP protest?
      Lol…. Most of those ppl there r just watching a show by a clown…

      • supporter

        to chris,
        I do not know how others think, I personally suspect that Prime Minister Lee has been a long time, my baby asked me, Prime minister took so much money from where, and my sister even harder. she can not afford to birth a child. many things caused we suffer, they are not honest government. if u say pap clean, that u r idiot.

    • Xmen

      Chris, r u an idiot? If you compare the number of people at the first CPF event to those at the first PWP rally, you should know that MOST Singaporeans support Roy. PAP will be proposing better CPF payout soon even if it doesn’t support the return of CPF. We have seen the same (PWP) movie before…

      • Chris

        So, just a few hundred ppl or one or two thousand ppl. U ignore the >3m Singaporeans who did not attend?
        U r ‘good’ at interpretation. Delusional as well.

      • Xmen

        I’m not sure who is delusional here. A few thousand ppl attended the PWP rally. Are you implying that >3m Singaporeans support PAP’s PWP? LOL.

  7. Ivan Ho

    Well, if we the CPF ordinary members can share the fruits from all these govt assets under TH by using our CPF trust fund, then our elderlies don’t have to work to the bone, in reality they can retire adequately and comfortably! Why such denial now by TS?
    Tio boh?

  8. John Koh

    Which ever way some wants to see it? It’s been great for many to have contributed to nation building with their CPF in any way, from cleaners to executives! However a cleaner just from everything from the country but refuse to contribute….crying for his CPF to be returned??

  9. Savant

    If land is not leased to the citizens but “bought” by them, then at some finite point in time, every land would be owned. There will be no other person who have a place to stay… duh..

    Simple logic.. most of you are just greedy.

    • Savant Is An Idiot

      @ Savant
      Then by your logic, we better convert all freehold property into 99 year leasehold property yah?

    • Deaf Frog's Toothpick

      @ Squealer

      Nobody here is asking for freehold HDB.

      if the government wants to charge land cost, transfer the land title to the HDB dwellers for 99years. End result is no different from selling land to private developers for building 99year leasehold condos.

      if the government does not want to sell the unit together with the land title, it is fair enough to remove the land cost from the selling price.

      there will never be a case when the land runs out just because too many ppl are “owning” land, because of the LAND ACQUISITION ACT, thats how the government got the land to build the HDBs in the first place.

      alternatively the government always have other options like using SERS or some other similar invention to “relocate” the ppl, options are plenty, which explains why u are not in government.

  10. Roy

    So what if what you said is the truth. What are u going to do next? You can do nothing. But very soon, a tailored-made muzzle will be install at your mouth. Mind your own business.

    • 路见不平 !

      reply to above comments:
      ” a tailored-made muzzle will be install at your mouth ? ”
      — Although justice never shoot first. but we follow up.
      答复上面:
      “一个量身打造的枪口将被安装在你的嘴? ”
      — 虽然正义永远不会先开枪。但我们跟进。

      “ Mind your own business ” ?
      — that is evidence that he had no business, prime minister lee destroyed .

  11. I own you

    Roy, I own your family house and stall too, you know? The loan your parents take out from the bank is partly funded by me. I’m your friendly next-door bank depositor.

  12. I own you

    As part owner, I want a share of your stall profits. Please give me the keys to your house. I want to go into your house whenever I wish.

  13. I own you

    Leasehold :
    Condo is leasehold too. According to your definition, condo owners don’t “own” their units and land. They are actually “leasing” the units and land. So, your grouse about HDB leasehold applies to condo as well. But why do you target HDB specifically without talking about the same situation faced by leasehold condo? What’s your intention?

    Strata titled:
    If you want to “lease” the land, carpark, playground, courts as your as your own unit, then you can go for condo. What’s stopping you? The price difference psf between condo and HDB? Yes, if you want strata-title, you must pay for it. If HDB is strata-titled, you pay for it too.

    • Deaf Frog's Toothpick

      @ Squealer

      HDB is 99 year lease without land title.

      Condo is 99 year lease with land title.
      (could be more, 103years, freehold, depends on the land, they are strata titled, they actually do own the land)

      HDB dwellers are officially LESSEE

      Condo owners are officially Subsidiary Proprietor

      this is not word play, the difference reflects their relationship with the land, if it does not matter to you, you don’t have to worry about it, you can slowly stew in your ignorant juices.

      condo is leasehold with land title, no problem, higher price is perfectly logical.

      if we want to make HDB like condo, no problem, sell it at higher price also, like the EC.

      but most of the HDBs are NOT EC, so the rationale is, since HDB is leasehold without land title, get rid factoring land cost into the selling price.

  14. Deaf Frog's Toothpick

    in summary,

    for HDB you pay for the land but do not own your share of the land.

    for condo you pay for the land and you own your share of the land.

    • Aye Bin Kon

      Oh no!
      I pay for cost of land.
      But I don’t own the land.
      Have I been conned?
      I better vote Opposition to confirm for me.

      • Aye Bin Kon

        Just realize.
        As a tenant in my HDB flats.
        The PAP government is asking us to pay for the rent 99 years in advance.

    • Deaf Frog's Toothpick

      @ Squealer

      all HDB documents refers to the HBD dweller as LESSEE, thats a fact.

      HDBs are not strata titled thats a fact as well.

      HDB owners do not own any share of the land thats a fact.

      I am prepared to be corrected if anyone can prove that i am wrong.

      your 4 letter word outburst merely reinforces the fact that ppl like you are illogical.

  15. 路见不平 !

    Roy & Huihui speak for all poorer Singaporeans, as well as for all monthly handed up CPF to them, but no bonus share plan from Temasek Holdings !

    • uncle lim

      We should all withdraw our CPF and to form a capitalists company. And invest in or loan to GIC, TH, HDB and others. We shold make much better returns then the present CPF given to us.

      • Why Loan To PAP Linked Entities ??

        You get better returns by buying shares in Berkshire Hathaway.
        You also get Warren buffet as your investment manager for free.

      • Jeran

        Dear Uncle Lim, do not need to be so complicated…just park your monies in Thailand and with both the exchange rate as well the interest rate for saving is enough! more than your interest in CPF! BY e way, if you had put on monies in Indonesia for the last 4 years, GUESS WHAT, the total return is amounting to some 29 percent and growing!!! surely the GIC and TH knew about such investment and have taken STUPID SINGAPOREANS AS SUCKERS, MAKING MONIES FOR THEMSELVES, AS WELL AS GIVING THEMSELVES HIGH SALARIES AND BONUSES!!

  16. Deaf Frog's Toothpick

    salary have to be measured against performance.

    when performance does not measure up, pay is revised downwards.
    ;

    weighing pros and cons are about making tradeoffs.

    tradeoffs would have to be measured against their outcomes.

    ;

    when the outcomes are bad, that means the wrong tradeoffs were made.

    and if the sum of the outcomes were good, why is the salary revised downwards?

  17. 路见不平 !

    the intervention of international organizations, will help to uncover the veil behind Temasek Holdings, expose the truth of a corruption family of Lee Kuan Yew. 国际组织的介入,将有助于揭开淡马锡控股背后的面纱,揭露李光耀家庭贪污的真相。

    • uncle lim

      I am just giving a proposal of capitalists company. Surly they are many professional out there can do better investments than GIC, TH and our goverment.

  18. The Oracle

    Location, location, location!

    To all the posters who want HDB to ignore land costs – some food for thought…

    First of all, if you want a HDB unit in a central or popular location there has to be a premium attached or nobody would want to live in the less popular/accessible areas.

    Along the same lines, only if you kill the resale market for HDB units (by, for example, making people sell units back to HDB at original paid price), could you approach zero land cost in the less popular areas. Otherwise the government would simply be handing big windfall profits to buyers of new HDB units when they ultimately sell in the resale market. Hence we follow a market price model.

    However, the government has two main ways of alleviating the cost of the market price model for HDB unit buyers:
    1) Supply – Build more units which will lead to resale price levels dropping (which also allows new units to be sold at lower prices). On this point the government can be damned if it does and damned if it doesn’t. How many remember all the negative press the government got for building too many units 10+ years ago? Now the government is building more units again but based on the BTO model. This ensures there aren’t whole estates sitting half-empty but it now means too long a wait for many and it is too slow to stop price rises for 3+ years before having a real impact on the market. In my opinion BTO needs to be changed to reduce the 3+ year lag.
    2) Grants & subsidies – There are already significant grants available for first time buyers, etc. to reduce of the cost of buying. Added to this, there are government-funded upgrading schemes, concessions on utilities, various payouts and vouchers that favour HDB dwellers over private, etc. Essentially this is HDB unit buyers’ discount or share of the land value – something condo buyers don’t get.
    (we could also talk about demand measures via the non-traditional property cooling measures, etc. but I’ve restricted this post to the key normal items)

    A more constructive discussion might be whether the grants and subsidies today are enough or perhaps there are other alternatives. Perhaps the 2.6% HDB mortgage rate should be lower (or lower for the first x thousand, etc.). All the options have a costs or opportunity costs attached and should be carefully considered. Zero land cost is not a viable alternative as it has been proposed on this thread so far.

    • martin

      thank you very much , i think ,@The Oracle is a gentleman. but DMP denied the capital fund of Temasek Holdings was the part of cpf, it is dishonest. Like money laundering, as the people’s money, wash into their own money, and that few shareholders reap the profits. This highlights the huge disparity communities, one in Singapore, two societies.

    • Aye Bin Kon

      Oh no!
      I pay for cost of land.
      But I don’t own the land.
      Have I been conned?
      I better vote Opposition to confirm for me.

      • Aye Bin Kon

        If I don’t own my HDB flat.
        Why am I paying property tax?

        Expats renting private property.
        They don’t pay property tax.

      • The Oracle

        The landlord pays the property tax and it is at 2.5 times the rate charged for an owner occupied dwelling. Essentially part of the rent paid by the expat will pay this property tax – so they are indirectly paying much more than you are in your HDB flat.

      • Aye Bin Konned

        @ The Oracle
        “Essentially part of the rent paid by the expat will pay this property tax ”
        – Bullshit
        – You PAPigs are getting desperate in your “explanations”

    • Xmen

      I don’t get this “land” cost thing. Basically you are leasing (or renting) from HDB for <99 years. As a rental unit, the rent is definitely based on location. HDB is always the landlord as it ultimately owns the land and structure after 99 years.

      The issue here is that people are paying significant portion of their income to HDB in order to "own" (lease) a flat. A significant portion of the population are unable to "own" (lease) a flat.

      People need to reevaluate the purpose of PUBLIC housing. Does it make sense when the price of a public housing rental unit is higher than the cost of a single family home in other developed countries? In the 60s and 70s, HDB was PUBLIC housing. Today, it is operated like a private FOR-PROFIT corporation (same as transport and utilities in Singapore.) This is not a NORM in most developed countries where public housing, public transport and public utilities are non-profit entities and usually subsidized by taxes from higher income taxpayers.

      PAP policies have gone overboard over the past 2 decades as reflected in the widening GINI index. It is time to move the policies away from unfettered capitalism when even public services are privatized for profits. To think that PAP will voluntarily change course is wishful thinking as witnessed in the PWP fiasco. IMHO even WP will be too "slow" to make necessary drastic changes.

    • Alan

      Why waste time on this group of idiots? They simply don’t care what you are trying to them and just cling on to their illogical rant!

      Let them be and the sane can see how idiotic they are in this Prata flipper site!

      • The Oracle

        True Alan. I know I’ll never convince them – their hate for PAP overrides everything. What I can do is poke (huge) holes in their “facts” so that their impact on some innocent people who may come across this site is at least diminished.

    • Deaf Frog's Toothpick

      metaphorically, Immigration is like a type of drug which’s dosage have to be increased each time it is consumed. how sustainable do you think it is?

      6.9m population is touted as the “solution” to

      the current “problem” of 5.3m population with TFR at 1.29

      now, there is no reason to believe that at 6.9m the TFR is going to go into reverse, when exposed to the same economic realities and stresses of our high speed hamster wheel system, the new immigrants would assimilate our TFR rate instead of behaving in a counter intuitive manner.

      this 6.9m eventually become grey tsunami in it’s own right, so when that happens, what is the “solution” to 6.9m at TFR 1.29? (or maybe even lower TFR)

      assuming the 30% increase calculated by the govt agency’s experts from 5.3 to 6.9 is correct.

      it logically follows that: 5.3m -> 6.9m -> 8.97m

      solution is 8.97m population? This is not sustainable because if the TFR does not come up, we cannot even stop at 8.97m, it will be endless.

      immigrants eventually grow old, with the same TFR as us, they cannot solve our population problem, they only strain the infrastructure now, and add to the absolute amount of old ppl when the time comes, this is not a solution.

      8.97m at 1.29 TFR is a much bigger problem than 5.3m at 1.29 TFR for such a small country like ours, the stress on our healthcare, land and transport will be incredible.

      time to robustly examine the real reasons why we need so many immigrants, is it a strategy which is good for us?

      or is it a strategy which is good for some ppl who want to have their cake and eat it too, at the expense of our quality of life?

      will be hold ourselves to ransom when we build for 6.9m, then we are forced to either have over supply infrastructure or accept more immigrants? isn’t it going to end up as a self fulfilling target?

      if it is, what does it mean for u?

      what is is the emigration numbers for SG? nobody know. it’s a secret. maybe u know why.

      • Deaf Frog's Toothpick

        *typo correction

        will we hold ourselves to ransom when we build for 6.9m, then we are forced to either have over supply infrastructure or accept more immigrants? isn’t it going to end up as a self fulfilling target?

  19. i own you

    Many condo is yours for 99years. It’s officially called leasehold too. It’s strata title deed is official leasehold for 99 years. It’s as LEASEHOLD as any 99-years HDB is. Don’t muddle up the issue because you just want to talk about HDB only.

    • jasmine

      For condos, I can sell to any foreigners. I am not encumbered by any race quota. I can decide to enbloc. I can build new facilities on the land. I can fence up the land and bar you from entering.

    • jasmine

      HDB is public housing, not private housing. Government must not make profit from it. It is duty of government to ensure everyone has a roof. Land cost should never be factored in. HDB can choose build where it wants. But the people must be able to afford without affecting their retirement. This government has lost its plot. It doesn’t even aware its duty and responsibility to its people. The only way forward is to vote out PAP.

  20. i own you

    A lot of people here are trying to cause confusion between leasehold and rental. Leasehold is ownership. Rental is not. You own your HDB flat. You can do many things with it including renting it out.

    If you rent/lease a HDB, you don’t own it. You can be kicked out next month. You can be asked for higher rents next month. Cumulatively, you’re paying a much higher premium in rent than if you’re buy and own the leasehold. You’re at the mercy of the leasehold owner. Get it or not?

    Leasehold is ownership. Don’t anyhow muddle things up to achieve your motive.

    • Deaf Frog's Toothpick

      @ Squealer

      HDB is 99 year lease without land title.

      Condo is 99 year lease with land title.
      ;

      The Honourable Minister Khaw Boon Wan’s reply to Gerald Giam:

      “Like all leasehold properties, HDB flats will revert to HDB, the landowner, upon expiry of their leases. HDB will in turn surrender the land to the State.”

      it’s on record in the Hansard, as we can see, HDB owns the land as the landowner, not the HDB dweller.

      Mr Khaw Boon Wan agrees with me, end of story.

    • Xmen

      Leasehold is essentially a lease with specific terms. The term of a commercial lease is often negotiated that allows for subleasing as well. Legally, leasehold is not ownership. When the remaining term is less than 30 years, the “value” of a leasehold will begin to drop. When it is less than 5 years, it is essentially identical to regular lease. When it expires, you lose everything including the structure. Your descendants, if they still live in your HDB flat at that time, will have to pack their belongings and find a new “home” (or more likely another HDB lease.)

    • i own you

      Wrong, legally leasehold is ownership.

      Whatever being said is the same as for leasehold condo too. It’s not just for HDB only. What’s more, leasehold is the same elsewhere in the world. So, what’s really your complaint? That the concept of leasehold as applied to condo (too) and everywhere else in the world is morally wrong?

      If that’s your complaint, don’t say HDB only. It applies to any leasehold, including condo and everywhere in the world.

    • Xmen

      No point arguing further. Below is from legal dictionary –

      http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/leasehold

      Leasehold –

      An estate, interest, in real property held under a rental agreement by which the owner gives another the right to occupy or use land for a period of time.

      West’s Encyclopedia of American Law, edition 2. Copyright 2008 The Gale Group, Inc. All rights reserved.

  21. i own you

    If you’re keen to own a freehold, buy one. If you alright to own a leasehold, go for it. If you only want lodging, you can rent. There’s no right or wrong. It’s up to you. Same as for a commercial business, it can also choose to buy freehold and build it’s own, or to own a leasehold building. Or it can also pay monthly rent for a place.

    It’s a choice what you want to own or even just to rent. Stop muddling things.

    • i own you

      By the way, for leasehold condo, when the time is up, the land goes too. Don’t be mistaken that you “own” the land in the sense that it’s yours forever. Leasehold condo is as leasehold as HDB can be.

      • jasmine

        You are the one trying to confuse people. Condo is private housing meant for the rich. HDB is supposed to be basic housing meant for people who cannot afford condo. The former is not subjected to HDB rules. NEA people cannot anyhow enter.

  22. Jg

    We all agreed on one point CPF is used to buy or rent a HDB flat it doesnot matter. You get a place to stay. If so, how did the government use CPF to invest in HDB we choose to pay to H D B . So Roy is taking us for a fool Did you hearing laughing now

    • JG

      Mr Roy, waiting for your rebutal to government didn’t use CPF to invest in HDB, By the way, CPF withdrawn under the CPF investment scheme is decided by individual members to buy shares in DBS, Singtel, etc. If so government doesn’t use CPF to invest in DBS, Singtel. CPF is also use to buy private properties, buy shares of non TH companies.

      • HDB Flats Versus 99 Year Private Leasehold Property

        HDB owns your HDB flats.
        That is why:
        a)you need to ask HDB for permission before renting out “your” HDB flat
        b)your 10 year old son cannot inherit your HDB flat.
        Because a minor cannot enter into a leasing contract with HDB

        The above are just 2 differences between between an owner of a 99 year HDB LEASE versus an owner of a private property with a 99 leaseHOLD.

        Yours Truly
        Aye Bin Konned s/o Yew Bin Kon
        not related to
        Li Kon Yew

    • Deaf Frog's Toothpick

      @ Squealer

      “Is the sh*t you are spouting the reason why you are not in parliament?”

      this sentence beautifully captures the frustrations of a illogical person like a well taken photograph.

      • Johnnie

        @Squealer
        “this sentence beautifully captures the frustrations of a illogical person like a well taken photograph.”
        I have observed you spouting rubbish for a while now, and you have the “I am holier than thou” attitude. That explains why you’re furiously typing online, while the rest of the world goes on about doing real work.

      • Deaf Frog's Toothpick

        blind allegiance to any party is a silly idea, that includes all parties.

        who thinks that the PAP will still be around in 100years time? KEE CHIU !! (raise your hands)

        no party lasts forever, it’s a choice between buying insurance and being a sitting duck.

        an insurance might not be perfect at first, but it can be gradually improved over time, if you don’t start, there will be nothing to improve on.

        an employer with foresight will groom alternatives to his best employee, when the inevitable happens, one of the alternatives can take over. the added advantage is this best employee will perform better due to the competition.

        a myopic employer will have irrational blind faith with his best employee, and will start to panic when this employee turns rogue then he’ll find that the only candidate left to take over is the lazer printer.

        predictably, the alternatives will not necessarily become better than your best employee overnight, thats not a problem, you don’t have to get rid of your best employee immediately, if he is still good, u keep him, if the competition makes him better, good for u, but you know that if bad things happen, you have options.

  23. WP

    It will be a disaster if government sell HDB at cost price without factoring land cost and market value. The whole Singapore property market will crash and many people that have bought flats / condos will go bankrupt as the value drops and they can’t service the loan. This is quite straight forward outcome yet so many people can’t see it coming and keep crying foul??

    • PAP Is The Problem

      “It will be a disaster if government sell HDB at cost price without factoring land cost and market value”
      And it was the PAP that created this problem in the first place tio boh?
      – the problem that was 50 years in the making

      The solution is to vote Opposition
      – bring in new management to solve the problem.
      – before PAP makes the situation even worse

    • LHL - The Little Boy Lost

      It will be an even bigger disaster to continue to vote PAP … a party whose only vision/solution for Singapore is to import more aliens … and pray that it will work.
      – the riot in Little India does not seem to serve as a warning
      – the SBS drivers strike does not seem to ring a bell

  24. Deaf Frog's Toothpick

    basically this whole “ownership” thing is based on allowing ppl to trade pieces of lease on the market for 6-7digit sums, the selling point is a carrot which says u keep the profit, this whole exercise is used to justify that u “own” something.

    we all know most of the profit cannot be taken out anyway and the more ppl profit, the more debt we are borrowing from the next generation.

    it might work for the first 50years when the leases are relatively new and everyone trades blind to the lease left, perhaps as blind as GIC is blind to the source of funds it uses.

    but as we know from Mr Khaw Boon Wan’s answer to Gerald Giam’s question, eventually the value runs down to zero when the lease is up, going forward, is it still logical to trades pieces of leases at 6-7digit sums when the leases run down?

    and when that happens, isn’t the whole strategy of asset inflation and monetisation for retirement self defeating?

    property goes in cycles, we ask the retiree to put all the eggs in one basket and if he retires on a down cycle, what is going to happen to him?

    rather than inflating property prices to attempt to make up the difference, better pay our workers properly and let them save up for retirement instead of making them spend so much on housing, and effectively is at the mercy of the property market.

    • What Type Of People Have We Voted Into Government?

      What kind of leaders,
      What kind of government,
      What kind of political party,
      – Continually encourages its citizens to inflate property prices?

  25. Deaf Frog's Toothpick

    the argument government has for increasing drawn down age and minimum sum for CPF is longer life expectancy, well, since life expectancy is longer, how about increasing the lease to 120years?

    in the 70s life expectancy is around 65yo, HDB is 99years

    now, life expectancy is touted as around 82yo, HDB still 99years

    apparently the logic something not quite right isn’t it?

    it’s like someone who sell u something, he say now the quality is increase therefore it theoretically last longer, therefore more expensive, BUT warranty period stay the same as before, not logical right?

    the minimum sum you know how to increase but the lease don’t know how to increase?

    • What Type Of People Have We Voted Into Government?

      The 99 years lease on all HDB flats can be changed to 199 years by an Act of Parliament
      – by voting in a new government
      – a government of the people, by the people, for the people.

  26. WP

    Yes I agree that the property inflation is created by the governement. However, it has benefitted a whole generation of people who are now in their 50s and 60s. Going forward we cannot reverse the situation as we are more or less stuck with this but need to still exercise control in the property markert as what we are doing now.

    • Just Because PAP Don't Know How To Reverse - Does Not Mean Singaporeans Don't Know How

      The 1st generation Singaporean father win from the high HDB flat prices.
      The 2nd generation of two children lose because of the high HDB flat prices.

      1st generation = father = one family WIN
      2nd generation = 2 children = two families LOSE.

      Typical PAP policy.
      Give one chicken wing to one generation.
      And then take back an entire chicken from the next generation.

  27. Ivan Ho

    Leasehold is not ownership. It’s a contractual agreement that a HDB flat dweller (to use owner is a wrong term) has with HDB which is the legal owner of all HDB flats for such lease over a period of time as stipulated ie 99 years lease. If you own a piece of pte property you have no problem with getting a loan from the bank all things remain constant. But not so with HDB flat! Can someone confirm this?

    The questions every HDB flat dweller is asking: Why we have to pay property tax when we are not the owner? Relating to this question, why we have to pay for the cost of land other than the cost of flat since HDB is the rightful owner of the land?

    • HDB As The Owner & Landlord - Is HDB Paying Its Fair Share?

      If HDB is the owner of the HDB flat.
      Why do we tenants have to pay for “our share” for the lift upgrading?

      Do expats in rental condos ever pay for the lift upgrading in their condos?
      Do expats pay for swimming pool upgrading?

  28. 路见不平 !

    one, Lee step down,
    two, Lee’s wife to be tried, Temasek Holdings return shares back to CPF account.
    three, CPF ? bring ordinary people join the management ( monitor system )
    four ,voting a new prime minister .

    • Alan

      Since you have so much air, why don’t u do what Prata did, show your guts by challenging LHL on all your claims.
      I believe he will give you all the attention you want than just farting loudly here.

      At least Prata did his by putting his neck out for you even though I felt is pretty stupid and illogical!

      • supporter

        to Alan,
        only those who Involved & enjoyed the Lee ‘s corruption are just farting loudly here. since people suffered terribly by pap’s corruption , so we want prime minister Lee step down

  29. Social justice

    For the 5 decades that is ruled by the PAP, the government is getting richer and richer while the people are getting poorer and poorer. The income and social inequality has widen. Tharman said will fix up the problem but apparently there is no solution. He is just dragging on with time. Now with this CPF saga thingy, tharman again said there will be more changes, but probably even after a couple of years later, nothing or little will be achieved. Instead of waiting for multiple changes to the different systems, let us change once and for all – the government.

    • Why Talk Opposition? - Just Vote Opposition

      PAP and Tharman will only listen if we vote for Opposition.
      1 minute in the voting booth.
      And we get a pro Singaporean government.

      • Splitting The Jackfruit Wide Open

        PAP can.
        PAP has solved the rich-poor income gap for the rich.
        By increasing the gap.

  30. Pingback: Daily SG: 29 Jul 2014 | The Singapore Daily
  31. CEO in Singapore

    Did Temasek Holdings Use Singaporeans’ CPF To Invest? yes of course. never doubting about that ,we multinationals still waiting for bonus share with them. if singapore leader dishonest , he shall involve an international lawsuit.

  32. Vincent

    Hey Roy, I just want to say again that I am truly amazed and in awe of your grit and tenacity throughout the past few months. Detached from any political party in Singapore, your steadfast conviction and never-say-die attitude in trying to expose the inner workings in the government machinery has proven you to be the sole, biggest nemesis the PAP club has seen in decades. Who’s to expect it is just 1 man, the proverbial David?
    I salute you. Never give up the fight!

  33. Zane

    Please face the reality that PAP will continue win. Nobody dare to vote PAP out. Singaporean have no guts.

  34. Pingback: How Much CPF Are Singaporeans Losing To The Government? | The Heart Truths
  35. Pingback: Did PAP Take Our CPF to Pay for the GIC’s and Temasek’s Losses? | The Heart Truths
  36. HARTSELL

    Heya we’re for that main time frame below. I uncovered this panel i locating It truly helpful & them helped me out lots.. email autoresponder I hope to supply anything backside plus assist people as if you served us.

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