The Story of What PAP Really Did to Our CPF in 15 Slides

Read what the PAP really did to our CPF in 15 slides. You can read the full article with the references here.

Slide1

Slide2

Slide3

Slide1

Slide4

CPF Ordinary Account Interest Rates from 1977 to 2007

Slide5

Slide36

Slide6

Slide34

Slide7

Slide3

Slide8

Slide1

Slide9

Slide117

Slide10

Slide11

Slide6

Slide12

Central Provident Fund in Singapore Surplus as Total Expenditure

Slide13

Temasek Holdings Did Invest CPF

Slide14

Slide54

Slide15

GIC Board of Directors

THE GREAT SINGAPORE LOCKDOWN

Return Our CPF burning rose poster

Return Our CPF sun poster

Return Our CPF burning sun poster

Come down to the #ReturnOurCPF protest this Saturday at 4pm at Hong Lim Park. You can join the Facebook event page here.

Return Our CPF 3 Poster Part 2

Return Our CPF 3 Poster Part 2 chinese

141 comments

  1. semini femminilizzati

    Siamo un gruppo di volontari e di partenza apertura di un nuovo schema nella nostra comunità.
    Il tuo Sito offerto info su cui lavorare. Tu hai fatto un’impressionante lavoro e la
    nostra intera intera comunità sarà grato grato a voi.

  2. Boolean

    The PAP do us in this time. CPF has ceased to become a retirement fund but instead a slush fund for GIC. No other countries have will do such thing to its own citizens. No PM in other countries will sue its own citizens. This is PAP. A party that represents greed and self-service.

    • jasmine

      I agree with you. Roy has done a good job showing the flow chart of wealth transfer from our CPF to make the government and its crony rich while keeping the rest of us poor.

  3. The Oracle

    Roy claims the average Singaporean loses $750,000 to $3,000,000 because CPF interest rates are not 6% but that is ridiculously wide of the mark. A more realistic calculation:

    1) Start with total funds in CPF today: $264,767,600,000
    Source: http://www.singstat.gov.sg/statistics/browse_by_theme/hhld_sector_balance_sheet.html

    2) Interest paid ranges from 2.5% to 5% with many getting 3.5% to 5% as Roy asserts more than half have circa $55,000 (less than the potential $60,000 that gets an extra 1%). All in all we can assume the average is 3.5% as paid on the special Singapore government bonds (those with smaller balances do better and those with bigger balances do worse).

    3) What should CPF pay? Given GIC real rate of return over the past 20 years of 4.1% and inflation over the same 20 years of 1.9%, yes, a case can be made for 6% return instead of 3.5%.

    4) Other assumptions: Average CPF member in the scheme for 20 years, annual wage growth of 6% notional. I put it all in a spreadsheet and:

    CPF Contributions CPF Actual CPF Ideal
    6.00% 3.50% 6.00%

    1995 5,250,000,000 $5,433,750,000 $5,565,000,000
    1996 5,565,000,000 $11,383,706,250 $11,797,800,000
    1997 5,898,900,000 $17,887,497,469 $18,758,502,000
    1998 6,252,834,000 $24,985,243,070 $26,512,016,160
    1999 6,628,004,040 $32,719,710,759 $35,128,421,412
    2000 7,025,684,282 $41,136,483,868 $44,683,352,036
    2001 7,447,225,339 $50,284,139,029 $55,258,412,018
    2002 7,894,058,860 $60,214,434,815 $66,941,619,130
    2003 8,367,702,391 $70,982,512,009 $79,827,880,813
    2004 8,869,764,535 $82,647,106,223 $94,019,504,068
    2005 9,401,950,407 $95,270,773,611 $109,626,741,744
    2006 9,966,067,431 $108,920,130,479 $126,768,377,726
    2007 10,564,031,477 $123,666,107,625 $145,572,353,755
    2008 11,197,873,366 $139,584,220,325 $166,176,440,748
    2009 11,869,745,768 $156,754,854,906 $188,728,957,707
    2010 12,581,930,514 $175,263,572,910 $213,389,541,514
    2011 13,336,846,345 $195,201,433,928 $240,329,971,130
    2012 14,137,057,125 $216,665,338,240 $269,735,049,950
    2013 14,985,280,553 $239,758,390,451 $301,803,550,333
    2014 15,884,397,386 $264,590,285,411 $336,749,224,582

    Difference: $72,158,939,171
    Per member short: $24,052.98
    Above based on average balance of: $88,196.76
    For Median balance of $55,000 as stated by Roy:
    Per member short: $14,999.57

    So, the average member as defined by Roy has about $15,000 less in their CPF account, subject to confirmation of my assumptions but the numbers won’t change dramatically. You can’t count the money withdrawn over the years for housing loans unless you also count the profit members have made on those properties.

    $15,000 is still significant but nothing like the crazy numbers Roy claims.

    • Boolean

      Aiyah, you are same dishonest cheat. CPF interest rate where got 3.5%? It is 2.5%. Show us your excel spreedshit

      • CY

        2.5% is only for the OA. The SA, MA and RA give 4% interest and an additional 1% interest is paid on the first $60000 of a member’s combined balance. So I see Roy is still misleading people about the 2.5%

      • The Oracle

        @Boolean
        I am not the one being dishonest. Roy has been corrected before on this point but he still knowingly spreads false information – that is really being dishonest!

      • Sgcynic

        Assuming oracle’ figure of $55k per CPF member, using simple rule of 72, over the 20 year interval from 1995 to 2014, the $55k would have doubled at 3.5% interest. How is it possible the short fall is only $15k? Beware a devious liar.

      • The Oracle

        @Sgcynic
        First, $55k is Roy’s estimate of the current median balance in members’ CPF accounts – not my number. Under the rule of 72, only the contribution made 20 years ago would double by today at 3.5% interest, with the remaining contributions from 19 years ago to this year increasing by a progressively lesser amount. All of that is captured in my spreadsheet with interest calculated on the interest, etc. Take the same contributions over 20 years and instead calculate at 6% interest and the member’s balance would be close to $70k instead – and we arrive at the typical underpayment to members of $15,000. Nothing is hidden – I encourage you to create your own spreadsheet if you like and work it out for yourself. Calling me a liar won’t change the numbers.

    • Mrs. Tan

      The Oracle,
      you better leave our forum , you are keen on forge , can you travel once to Kallang HDB area, get into their room, talk with them, then come back to join our discussion , since PAP has denied the presence of poor and homeless individuals in Singapore. it means PAP felt shameless under 50 years leadership .

      • The Oracle

        No it’s not true. You will get it back via an income for the rest of your life plus the PAP government you obviously hate just announced a partial withdrawal will be allowed in future. Don’t believe everything Roy tells you!

      • Sgcynic

        The oracle guarantees it…

        Be careful. In oracles’ vision, the future always changes with each individual action. And they always see everyone’s future but not their own.

        Next pseudonyms

        Soothsayer

        Shaman

    • Xmen

      @Oracle,

      What is the Actual CPF in year 1994 that you conveniently left out in your spreadsheet? Is it a BIG FAT ZERO?! How is that even possible?

      You need to stop throwing random numbers around with faulty assumptions.

      • The Oracle

        @Xmen
        I don’t know but it was a much smaller number than the figure today. Also, as discussed previously, CPF rates were higher in the past so any underpayment from CPF was definitely less back then. With more data and less assumptions we refine the estimate but it isn’t going to be significantly different and it isn’t going to be anything like Roy’s numbers that are clearly wrong.

      • Xmen

        @Oracle,

        “I don’t know…” So you are basically spewing nonsense here. You are attempting to justify your position with faulty assumptions. I suggest you refrain from doing so as there are many intelligent people here.

        One suggestion for you. If you are so interested in the actual number, do some back of the envelope calculations and you should arrive at a pretty close estimate. I am guessing that it will be a few times your $24k number. Sorry I don’t have time to do all these calculations. PAP definitely has the information but they are not sharing it. All I can say is that a legitimate government does not hide such numbers from its people.

      • The Oracle

        Nothing is hidden and if you are going to criticize my numbers then calculate yours and post the spreadsheet with any assumptions you have made – otherwise you are the one spewing nonsense. The reality is Roy’s numbers are ridiculously wrong.

      • Xmen

        If nothing is hidden, why don’t you provide the facts here instead of a fraudulent spreadsheet? Do I need to argue with you that the Actual CPF in 1994 is not zero?

      • The Oracle

        @Xmen
        My number is very close to correct for somebody who has been a CPF member for 20 years and today has Roy’s estimated median cash balance of $55,000 – and the CPF balance in 1995 for this hypothetical member is correct at zero (don’t forget a chunk of the cash 20 years ago would relate to members who have since retired, died, etc.). People who have the median cash balance of $55,000 today and have been members longer would, I agree, have more than $70,000 if accumulated instead at 6% – while the opposite is true for people who are members less than 20 years. I was clear about my assumption of average 20 years membership.

      • Xmen

        @Oracle,

        Yes, the 1995 number is correct. Other than that, everything is just your speculation. 1994 balance is blatantly false. Repeating the same false claim 100 times does not make it right. Also, at retirement, most people would have their CPF accounts for 30 years or so, not 20 years. So the loss in the CPF earning is far higher than what you claim (without any factual basis).

    • Very sad

      How can we use GIC return? CPF was invested in TH or invested in highly profitable companies that were handed to TH. The returns is 16% Use 16%. You will see losses of many millions.

      • The Oracle

        What, when proven wrong, just move the goalposts?! Roy stated 6% and I calculated according to that.

    • Daryl

      In essence, if CPF is a retirement fund, the govn should never have allowed it to be used for housing. This is a fact ! They are creating the perfect storm for price escalation, all to their advantage. Now, they turn around and ask us to sell our flats !!! What a bummer !!! Time to show them that we are the masters who can decide their destiny !!!

      • blah

        @Drayl

        U are right. The government should have never allowed pension funds to be used for housing. It was a wrong move.

        But then again, how many ppl would be able to afford to get flats without CPF? (That’s another debate on why housing prices are so high).

        After using the CPF for houses, a lot of ppl can’t hit the MS because of the low returns. That is why proper planning is vital (e.g. invest in funds with CPF), however, a huge portion of the public are not savvy enough to do that. Does it boil down to public education (leading them to be risk adverse)? Or the CPF system itself?

        The buyback scheme is just another effort (optional) to let citizens hit MS. It is entirely optional. Plan before u act, thats the only option.

      • Deaf Frog's Toothpick

        @ Drayl

        inadequacies of the CPF

        1. Assumes that the large majority of the population can save enough for retirement. From the way our healthcare and cost of living is going, this is a big assumption.

        2. Assumes that when 1. fails, the property market can be inflated to make up for the difference$.

        3. Assumes that home “ownership” and the subsequent monetisation of property is a good strategy for retirement, which is not necessarily true.

        for the low income, it’s all eggs in the same basket tied up in an illiquid and potentially volatile asset(HDB). it’s almost like putting all retirement funds into property speculation.

        left on it’s own, property market goes in cycles, what happens when someone retires in a down-cycle? just curse his luck? the retiree obviously do not have the option to wait out the down-cycle. leaving retirees at the mercy of the property cycle is not a good outcome.

        in a ageing population like ours, large groups of low wage, similar aged folks will try to monetise at around the same time, if that happens the property market goes into over-supply and falls. strategy self-defeats.

        if over-supply threatens, political pressure might force the government to intervene in the property market to create artificial demand via immigrant influx, quality control of immigrants might be compromised because government will be stuck in dilemma between quantity and quality.

        if the government intervenes in the property market to create artificial demand via immigrant influx, and the process is mismanaged, it will result in a double whammy of depressed wages for the mid-low wage workers and high property prices happening at the same time.

        4. inflexibility, forces ppl to accept low risk-low return regardless of the person’s age and risk appetite.

        5. inflexibility, forces low-mid wage earners to accept investment(some say speculation) of the only property they have as a strategy for retirement.

        6. Inflation risk when returns either fails to beat inflation or when it does, it gives mediocre returns after accounting for inflation.

        7. Illogical, minimum sum pegged to inflation(some say average hdb prices) but interest rate not pegged to inflation.

        8. Illogical, minimum sum pegged to ageing but HDB lease not pegged to ageing. when life expectancy in the 1970s was 68+/- the lease was sold at 99 years, now the life expectancy is around 82+/-, the lease STILL sold at 99years, not logical.

        9. CPF funds are subjected to policy risk with little options for the member. when the rules keep changing (some say evolve), there is an element of uncertainty for the retiree, how do we expect ppl to plan for retirement when the system itself introduces uncertainty?

        10. Monetisation strategy requires high and ever rising rent+property prices, which is effectively borrowing from future generation (and immigrants), the low-mid wage earners loses out in this situation but wealthy becomes richer as they can afford to speculate in multiple properties as take in the profits in a soaring property market, monetisation strategy results in regressive wealth distribution and contributes to widening the wealth gap.

        ;

        i think it is better to pay our low-mid income earners properly and not use so much of their income for housing, this, together with better CPF interest rates will go a long way to ensure that they will be able to retire when the time comes.

        there is only so much wealth redistribution a government can do, letting wages stagnate at the lower end and keep doing redistribution is not a solution, soon(some say it’s already happening) it will be tempting for all forms of stealth taxes to keep increasing to fund the redistribution effort, which means we become less competitive as a nation, because eventually taxes work their way into our cost structure.

        I think the government has been misled or mistaken in some of its measures and i would like to point out inadequacies in the policies with a view of remedying of such inadequacies.

        if the government is unable to address these inadequacies, i think it is fair for me to attempt to procure by lawful means the alteration of the policies by voting in more opposition in the next election to help the government.

    • blah

      Figures aside, I think we need to understand the fundamental structure of the system before we criticise. If we were to view CPF Goverment and GIC (or temasek) as 3 seperate entities, the flow will be as follows: Goverment issue bonds to pool money from the CPF in return of giving them guaranteed returns. Goverment then uses these money to have GIC and temasak invest and get returns for whatever purpose that he wants. On a simpler level of understanding, view u, the bank and a fund manager instead. If u were to go in a bank and get a fixed deposit with guaranteed returns of 1%/annum, the bank then takes ur money and invests with the fund manager, it is none of ur business how much money the bank earns from that investment with the fund manager because u chose to avoid investment risks to go for guaranteed returns.

      Back to the point in CPF, if u were someone who is willing to take direct investment risks, feel free to invest in the funds that are available on the market, there’s no one to stop u. Oversea pension funds do not offer guaranteed returns instead most of their money is put into similar unit trusts, hence their higher returns.

      To the point of the lump sum withdrawal (still some points debatable on what is better for the citizens), if in the event where citizen takes out all the lump sum, finishes spending it before he passes, what will happen? Couple of things, first he will have to depend on social welfare or the Goverment to support them (should there be such rising problem), the government will need to find money (additional) to support them, and where does it come from? Tax payers. It will be a vicious cycle.

      But who are we to judge whether the citizens can manage their own finance or to invest properly? Then again, if they know how to manage and invest properly, they wouldn’t be screaming at the Goverment to release all their CPF because they need it for survival. Those who have enough financial capabilities to manage their own invesments, on the other hand, should be able to appreciate the annuity program that CPF offers.

      Then u would argue again that they are the illuminati and want us to be doomed without flats. The flat lease buyback scheme is optional. Should u make the right investment in the funds or have accumulated enough for MS, then u wont even have to entertain that thought. For those who dont meet MS, who can u blame u have a lower annuity than the others (conveniently, the government)

      What is Roy motive for writing these articles? Is it really to help the citizens get what they deserve? Or is it a politically motivated post to upsurge ignorant citizens, knowing that the goverment will not give in to perform impossible feats to adjust guranteed returns to match that of their investment returns?

      Just 2cents thoughts. Please start flaming. Tks

      • Deaf Frog's Toothpick

        @ blah

        u have committed a logical error by comparing a SWF-pension fund system(CPF) with banks, banks are commercial entities, they are profit driven in nature, pensions funds fall under the category of public goods which should not operate with profit driven objectives.

        so it is a apple-orange comparison.

      • Deaf Frog's Toothpick

        @ Blah

        as for your other points, it’s a longwinded attempt to shift the blame for CPF’s failure by saying it’s the people fault because they are incompetent at investing.

        your argument is logically bankrupt because it hold the following contradictory points at the same time:

        1. the basic assumption of the CPF is to assume that the ppl are not able to save enough for retirement by making their own investments. the basic assumption of withholding the minimum sum is also, assuming that whatever good things(investing, doing business) the ppl plan do with the money, they will fail, which explains why it cannot be taken out.

        2. having not enough for retirement is the ppl’s own fault due to incompetent investing. in your own words:”Should u make the right investment in the funds or have accumulated enough for MS, then u wont even have to entertain that thought.”

        ;

        as we can see, 2 contradicts 1 because if the government assumes that all ppl can have enough for retirement by making their own investments, then CPF will be totally redundant and we would not need it in the first place.

        the reason why CPF is around is precisely because it is the solution to the initial assumption that ppl are bad at investing.

        so when u r shifting the blame by saying it’s the ppl’s fault, u r just twisting the dagger by trying to cover up the inadequacies of the CPF by demonising the ppl.

  4. 地球上最坏的人是李光耀

    An very clear chart that LKY is the man-eating wolf
    If the people of Singapore still be so goodness to the man-eating wolf, that is too cruel to himself. The most evil person on Earth is Lee Kuan Yew. Too evil, very evil,evil into broken bones
    大灰狼如何一步一步地吃人的 ? 新加坡人民如果再次對吃人的狼善良,就是對自己太殘忍。地球上最坏的人是李光耀 . 太壞了,非常的壞,壞到骨子裡面啦 !

    • The Oracle

      No it’s not true. You will get it back via an income for the rest of your life plus the PAP government you obviously hate just announced a partial withdrawal will be allowed in future. Don’t believe everything Roy tells you!

      • Is It True?

        But Mr Oracle Sir.
        You did not answer my question.
        At 55 years old … can I withdraw all my CPF money?
        That was the original PAP promise.

      • Poomer

        Hi Oracle, what would you do if you deposit your money in a bank’s Fixed Deposit(FD) and when the FD matures, the bank tells you they cannot payout in one lump sum, instead they give you 20% of the the lump sum, which is less than the principal you put in, and they will pay you back the rest each month spread over twenty years?

  5. Sing

    Prime Minister Lee speech , really like a bastard ! that is a war, we fighting for our own money back . if he needs money, he must borrow money from bank !

  6. 總理簡直是強盜

    他哪裡像是一國總理, 簡直是強盜 !明目張膽打搶我們的血汗錢 。逼著人民替他養孫子, 世界上有這麼不要臉的人還在做總理嗎 ?

  7. Nike

    Many young singaporeans are planning their exit from this ‘mafia’ government. We’re being sold out after we’d been bullied.

  8. Changiairport

    he is robber , his 10 millions income from our CPF’s interests & snatch all of goodness people’s saving , I hope these robbers are punished. Or die in a car accident, or died of poisoning, or was killed in their time abroad halfway… they deserved to be punished ,return dignity to Singaporeans

  9. Bullshit Roy

    Faggot Roy
    U conned so many ppl their donation money. So, what did u do with the money?
    Don’t u have slides to show how the money is spent?
    Where is the transparency?
    U dun have a clue on how pension fund works, right? Cpf and others r not that different. The difference is govt is helping Singapore. Private pension fund helps themselves.
    Ur brain is either as small as a pea or u r as devious as satan to tempt ppl to spend their cpf money and blame our govt…

    • reply above

      We support Roy , it is not your business, we want Roy help us, we want all Singaporeans together fight with your greedy dad — LHL ! as long as fighting with LKY and LHL, get the bastard greedy PM down, achieve the dream of several generations. you want Lee Hsien Loong step down now, we want Lee Hsien Loong’s wife to be tried, we want Lee Kuan Yew was hanged, Blood will have blood !

    • Poomer

      There is no evidence whatsoever that the government is serving the people of Singapore. The books have never seen the light of day, whatever they’ve said so far, and whatever the full page colour advertisements says are merely unsupported claims.

  10. Bullshit Roy

    Roy
    May the ppl who r lying die a most horrible death.
    Lying men shall be slaves for the rest of their lives and future lives
    Lying women shall be slaves and maids for the rest of their lives and future lives.
    Both will be both in war torn countries to pay for their mistakes…

    • reply Bullshit

      the poorer did not fear die, but the more money the more afraid of death, the War coming, I am sure, your PM’s greedy money still here, but his life finished before everyone ! He initiated the war ! His son in USA needs to pay for him !

    • reply " Bullshit Roy"

      Roy did a great job !
      go back and read the article that original from your newspaper and library,
      You just growl, you also use the eraser, what shame of your prime minister !
      he got so huge income, his job just like take pictures every day with others,
      did nothing , never seen he turn up and solve an issuse ? never !
      pls step down, let others take over the job of Singapore prime minister !

  11. Problematic government.

    The true Singaporeans will know that the PAP government policies are not based on meritocracy. Meritocracy seems a noble word, and it signifies equality in everything and everything is based on merit. But look at the ministers and MPs’ relationships with one another, and you know it is not on meritocracy. LHL = son of LKY. Tony Tan= friend of LKY. Teo chee Hean and George Yeo= friend of LHL during school days. Tony Tan ‘s son no need serve NS. Tin Pei Ling = wife of LHL’s permanent secretary and the list goes on. Hey come on, if it is a true meritocratic society, competition should be based solely on merits, and not through relationships. Look at HDB. Priority of BTO given to grassroots leader and it is a common occurrence that grassroot leaders are given a shorter queue number or no need to queue at all when it comes to selection of flats. It is also commonly seen that units on the TOP level of HDB flats are specially reserved for grassroots leaders. If these are not subtle corruptions, then what are these?

    For those die-hard PAP supporters, ask yourself truthfully if PAP is that squeaky clean and white.

    • reply to Oracle

      Its true. Meritocracy is a farce. If not how can a person major in maths and not finance lead Temasek holdings.

    • reply " Bullshit Roy"

      If destroy the greedy appetite, is worth it!
      we want a new prime minister
      we want LHL step down !
      we want our money back !

  12. OracleIs_is_PAP_IB

    Oracle go eat shit and die la u fuggin PAP trash! Can take partial out!!! 20% of 161k is how much only? 32,200. Wah…am I suppose to jump in jubilation with that. Wat is 32,200 in todays context??? Fuggin derisory! Not even enuff to get a CAT A COE you dimwit. You take all my hard earned money, go buy many many property, grossly overpay yourselves, live in castles FUNDED BY US and leave us to take the scraps?????? Since when da fug was interest rates for CPF 3.5%. Your lanjiao weh many many. It’s obvious you’re from the govt & wasting our tax payers money trying very hard ( BUT GROSSLY FUTILE ) to sway attn from the truth. You say ROY spewing lies correct, if you are so full of integrity & claim Roy’s nothing but a fuggin liar, then tell the entire GOVT to SUE him coz all these lies you claim he spew more than qualifies for it! If not, suck thumb, or go back under his desk & suck your master’s cum! I pity your parents!

    • The Oracle

      3.5% is the average CPF payout today and any reasonable Singaporean can figure that out for themselves (2.5% on OA and up to 5% on RA, SA and MA with 1% bonus on first $60,000 of member’s balance). Anybody can check their CPF statements and figure this out.

      But you – your pea brain clearly can’t do the math or handle any criticism of your messiah Roy. I have more news for you though – he won’t deliver you to the promised land! He is a false prophet who is sowing discord in our midst with his half truths. Actually, I pity you – so stupid, so full of hate, so easily misled. Maybe one day you’ll see the light – but hell will probably freeze over first.

      • Poomer

        GIC average returns over the last 2 decades are close to 6%, let’s say 0.5% is administrative, which is already a large sum of $1.3 billion per annum on it’s own. So we deduct 6% -3.5% – 0.5%, where does the remaining 2% goes to? How is this remotely reasonable?

      • The Oracle

        READ MY ORIGINAL POST above and you will see I actually agreed with Roy a case can be made for CPF being as high as 6%! What I objected to was his ridiculous claim that this leads to losses per citizen of $750,000 to $3,000,000.

  13. reply "The Oracle"

    PAP have no right to occupy after our age 55, otherwise, it is murder. The Oracle and LHL must borrow from bank, you must pay up to 11% interests to the bank’s loan. since PM’s huge income was from our CPF’s interest, so PM must pay us up to 11% interests.

    • The Oracle

      Are you stupid? First I am not PAP. Second my mortgage is at just over 1.1% – not 11%! You want 1.1%? That’s more than you’ll get in a bank deposit! Get real.

      • reply The Oracle

        PAP needs Money
        PAP must borrow from bank !
        PAP have to pay to the loan up to 11% to the bank !
        Do you understand ?

      • jasmine

        This Oracle likes to mislead us with half-truths. 1.1% is clearly the signup promotion rate for floating Sibor. No banks would dare to beat CPF board rate of 2.6% unless they want to incur the wrath of the PAP government.

      • The Oracle

        Except I remortgaged 3 years ago at SIBOR + 0.7% and I have that for the life of the mortgage.

    • Problematic government.

      Let me ask you then, what capabilities or character or contributions that Tin Pei ling possessed/done that differentiated her from other young graduates, other than her being linked up to LHL through her husband, for her to be elected by piggybacking from GCT, into the parliament?

  14. O$P$

    Oracle, O$P$. My CPF. My $$$! Period. We allowed you white tarts to use it to build our nation. Agreement was 55yrs old. Now squander all away wanna raise min sum & keep our money for your own????? I say again. My money! Not yours! O$P$

  15. O$P$

    Pls dun tell me you use my CPF to build HDB for me to stay. Cos in the end, I paid for it, with interest from my own money! O$P$

  16. O$P$

    Serve NS got 2 kinds. The really serve with sweat type & those that served like a holiday camp only to get promoted for doing nothing! When I was a tekong, a former 3 star general took helicopter to tekong to visit his son. Power right! Oh fyi, I was serving as an instructor then to new recruits & the amount of leeway we were expected to give that batch, especially that company & platoon, better than going for a resort holiday. Their crew cut was also as good as shorter than civilian. What do you think?

  17. O$P$

    Oracle, like someone said, please tell your govt employers to sue Roy. There are tons of evidence all over his blog.

  18. Change is the best solution.

    I dont care whether this boy is sued or not! I want this government to be CHANGED!! DAMN IT!!

  19. Deaf Frog's Toothpick

    salary have to be measured against performance.

    when performance does not measure up, pay is revised downwards.
    ;

    weighing pros and cons are about making tradeoffs.

    tradeoffs would have to be measured against their outcomes.

    ;

    when the outcomes are bad, that means the wrong tradeoffs were made.

    and if the sum of the outcomes were good, why is the salary revised downwards?

    ;

    lets examine the outcomes,

    1. WORST floods in recent sg history.

    2. WORST unauthorised strike in recent sg history by CHINA bus drivers talents.

    3. WORST riot in recent sg history by Foreign Talents in little india

    4. WORST Mrt breakdown record in recent sg history.

    the PAP does not need 80-90% majority in parliament in order to govern, no party does. if a party says it needs SO MUCH power as to be able to change the constitution frequently or overrule the president at will in order to govern, then something is wrong with the system.

    as seen from the outcomes(FLOODS, RIOT, MRT breakdowns, PRC bus drivers go on STRIKE), the high percentage of majority PAP had in parliament did not translate into good performance.

    the implied logic of voting for PAP-government is paying a PREMIUM (which is not limited to $$) for extraordinary performance, from the outcomes I don’t think the performance justifies the premium.

    if i want to allow a political party to trial-and-error over years to try to fix MRT, flood problems or give mediocre CPF returns, then any party will do.

    why should I pay the price for a ferarri that goes like a toyota? a real toyota is more value for money in that sense.

    well, I think the government has been misled or mistaken in some of its measures and i would like to point out inadequacies with a view of remedying such inadequacies.

    i find it to be unconscionable to reward bad outcomes, if the government is not able to address these inadequacies, i think it is fair for me to attempt to procure change and improvement by lawful means by voting for more opposition in the next election.

  20. Eunuch -- The Oracle

    原来,你們新加坡搞了不好,因為有 The Oracle 這樣的太監做中间商. 有一天,一粒飛彈向新加坡李顯龍駐地投射, 這位太監的功勞最大.
    No wonder Singapore become to worse,
    because The Oracle is an eunuch, do a middlemen ? One day, a missile is projected to Singapore LHL’s home, All his credit — LHL’s Eunuch — The Oracle

  21. 正義的力量

    公積金本來就是人民自己的儲蓄,55歲以後,是否繼續參加集體儲蓄, 應當以自願方式,認為有好處的, 可以繼續, 反之, 不應當變成一個像受到懲罰那樣的, 強制執行已經犯了他人財產罪

    把他人財產佔位私有是犯了侵占罪,具有非法占有的目的。侵犯財產罪侵害的客體是公民財產的所有權, 占有權、使用權、收益權和處分權四項基本權能組成。

    侵犯財產罪侵犯的對象是公民私人所有權的財產。公民私人所有的財產是指:公民的合法收入、儲蓄、房屋和家庭所有。作為侵犯財產罪的侵犯對象的財產必須具有經濟價值,造成影響很壞等,即構成本罪。

    建議新加坡人聯合起來,以政府侵犯公民財產罪, 通過联合国大会,在國際法庭控告李顯龍政府,並要求他對人民帶來的災難作出賠償

    International Court of Justice,或作国际法院,是联合国的司法裁决机构,根据《国际法院规约》于1946年2月成立。国际法院的主要功能是对各国所提交的案件做出仲裁,或在联合国大会及联合国安理会的请求下提供咨询性司法建议。它还可以审理涉嫌违反国际法的案件。

    国际法院位于荷兰海牙,共有法官15人。法官人选由常设仲裁庭的仲裁员组成的国内团体或各国政府专为国际法院选举而委派的团体提名,联合国大会和联合国安理会选举产生。法官任期9年,并且可以连任,每三年改选三分之一的法官,15名法官必须全部来自不同的国家(安理会的5个常任理事国,美国、英国、中国、法国和俄罗斯必须各占一个名额)。法官应不论国籍,而且应尽量能够代表世界各大文化及主要法系,其中不得有两名属于同一国籍。 所有决议都必须在出席法官多数同意后才能做出。其职能有两方面:

    对当事国一致同意提交国际法庭的法律争端,根据《联合国宪章》规定以及有关条约及公约做出判决; 对联合国其他机构或各种专门机构就其工作范围内提出的任何法律问题发表咨询意见。

  22. The Oracle

    The Oracle,
    PLEASE FORGIVE ME FOR I AM BORN OF PROSTITUTE PARENTAGE … SO DOES MY FOR PARENTS, THEREAFTER MY GENERATIONS TO COME CUZ I HAVE ALSO CONTINUE TO PROSTITUTE HENCE ON ESPECIALLY TO ANYONE WHO COULD JUST PROVIDE ME CRUMBS FROM THEIR TABLE …. YES, SCREW ME HARD, I LIKE IT!!

    • Oracle_Jiak_Sai_lah

      We already know this ORACLE. You are just like what that PRC did at Holland MRT stn. Nothing but a piece of shit!

  23. The Oracle is scum

    About ” The Oracle ”

    He is the Scum, in our human society, scum’s conduct, contrary social code, Conduct violation of human relations.

    這種人渣的特點,是不择手段谋取不正当利益但还要掩盖事实真相在外装好人的人,比如别人被他害死了,亲人很痛苦,他还要对其他人说那人没死还活得好着呢,大家不用担心。又如自己明明做了坏事,给别人造成终身残疾,但还要推卸责任对别人说是她咎由自取,与我无关,然后在被害者面前表现出来他其实更痛苦,然后假意关心,实际想套取别人信任,然后等别人发觉再予以致命一击,将别人置于死地。

    This scum features, is unscrupulously seek illegitimate interests, but also to cover up the truth, pretend he is a good person ,

    such as people was killed by him, victim’s family is very painful, what about him ? he insist say to others that the victim did not die and still alive well yet, and everybody do not worry.

    Another example that he obviously did something bad to others resulting in permanent disability, but he also to shirk responsibility for others that is people’s own fault, nothing to do with me,

    then pretend to care, actually wants to cash in trust others, and then wait for someone else to be a fatal blow and then find the others put to death.

    新加坡地方不大,人渣當道, 民眾遭殃.害國害民,視其為毒蛇.

  24. Oracle - Is It True ?

    If I vote Opposition, PAP will feel pressured into returning more CPF money back to me at 55 years old?

  25. tan

    All these name calling only serves to prove the Roy supporters are losers in life. Little do they know that even if the opposition is to take over the government one day, their lives will still remain pathetic because they will keep blaming the government for their miserable lives . Just let them whine and complain and suffer, why bother.

    • Tan Yan Ren

      all you spineless and useless selfish people…as long as the system benefits you or as long as you have made it in life… you dont care….. do you??? CURSE those who falls in to this category…as long as you can own houses , cars , plenty of money and influence …you bastards ..the 60 percent ..dont really care!!!as far as i am concerned , anyone who thinksthe policies against Singaporeans are justiufiable , curse you!!!I happen to be in this group but i am different…. I CARE!!!… i dare to declare i fall into this less than 5 percentage of selfless people..i will defend my Singaporean rights at ALL cost!!!will you !!!

  26. ORACLE

    @Oracle_Jiak_Sai_lah…Ohhhhhh i am so scare you know lah….so sorry that day never bring tissue paper to shit lor…also there so clean and nice to shit all mah… don jealous la…next time i also shit at your house, your mother and father house and sure sure leave some at your mouth … your noodle and put some in the box for you to bring for lunch la… by the way, I like you lei, i may let dig my A..and if you like I can suck your banananas instead of you digging, and sucking your Line Leader one la…sure sure I let you have a good time and good meal of my shit lor… remember to leave some for supper ya…
    LONG LIVE ROY AND LONG LIVE THE CRUSADE TO TAKE BACK OUR MONIES, OUR CPF!!! I AM ONE AND ONLY, ORACLE

  27. Oracle

    @tan~8.48 yo man, dot pretend pretend and bring Roy into this episode of comments la…this is THE DEMOCRACY mah…u say u want can la and other cannot issit? IS NOTHING TO DO WITH ROY OR SUPPORTERS…is my own comments la…and ONLY USE SUCH WAY TO TREAT DOGS, O scumbag bastardize dogs who dig and licked around, and also get dick around…the lowest creature should be treated thus, very kind liao…otherwise how else to use human language and spirit to talk with such lowly evolve creature lei?
    tan u quite ok la…if there is any comment herein nothing to do with Roy, though yes i like him … he is a HERO and yes, he fights for me and my family and for you, better you not get involve…if you not happy .,, get the fck out la..otherwise you can also join to write whatever way you want, LIE, CHEAT AND SCORN, OR ALSO BECOME BASTARDIZE ….ONE MORE DOG AIN’T TOO MUCH!
    if you are good, i shit some supper for you just like Oracle ok…be good boy ya and sure sure bring some for your porridge…

  28. JoannaQuek

    Even vote for opp and opp win all the seats who can promise we can get back all the CPF? , I don’t think you will get back your CPF as no matter which party is the government they all work the same way, help Singapore to grow and if you think policy going to changes much then think twice.

    • Deaf Frog's Toothpick

      @ JoannaQuek

      according to your logic of all governments work the same way, there is no reason to vote for PAP, because the justification for voting for them is paying a premium to get extraordinary performance, since all parties work in the same way, there is no justification to vote for PAP.

      and u cannot prove that all governments work in the say way.

      which probably says very little abt your intelligence.

    • The Oracle

      Ooooh – beware the unbeliever! The Oracle doesn’t accept on faith Roy’s exact version of the “truth” so he must be publicly stoned and cast into the abyss! Francis, you are the kind of person ISIS is hiring in Iraq right now!

      If what Roy says is truth then it should stand up to scrutiny – but I gave a clear example of where his claims fall down. It doesn’t mean there aren’t some truths in his message but he does himself and his readers a disservice by not sticking more closely to the facts.

      • lee xian loon

        Oracle, do you dare tell everyone (and your bare self) that you do not receive even a tinge of vested interest from pap, from your comments in this blog?

      • reply "The Oracle",

        People made ​​a summary for you, Because you have been cheated to cross the border for 50 years, Because you have been the fish in troubled Water, You want local people never question,
        Because people’s question have threatened you the serious consequences if you occupy our CPF sums without return by age 55 .

      • The Oracle

        @lee xian loon
        I have no connection to the PAP – and I swear this on the lives of all my family!

        I have for example stated above that a case can be made for 6% interest on CPF (see point 3 of my initial post) – I don’t believe that’s something a PAP supporter would say. At the same time is doesn’t make me pro-Roy – the world isn’t so black and white.

        PAP: Went too pro-business, too pro-rich and too pro-growth-at-any-cost – and forgot it is meant to serve citizens first. It is now struggling to find a better balance.

        Roy: His heart may be in the right place but his hatred of PAP blinds his judgment, is prone to exaggerate his numbers which damages his credibility, he’s still young so hopefully he will gain some wisdom with age.

        Me: I call it like I see it.

    • jasmine

      @Francis, I agree with you. This Oracle has been spouting nonsense for long time. When people expose his lies, he quickly went into hiding. Just need to go back to previous articles to witness how he conveniently disappear when he loses an argument.

      • jasmine

        @Oracle, I am referring to previous articles where people challenge your arguments and you conveniently disappear and are nowhere to be found. Yes, like a coward, I can see that you are still “here” but nowhere to be found “there”. It just shows that you are just playing to the gallery like a false prophet dispensing your words of poison to unsuspecting readers.

      • to The Oracle

        1.
        don’t remind us your not not PAP. nobody interest in you, but you are the beneficiary from pap, not us. ok
        2. don’t always point at roy , he hate PAP ? no, we all, everyone here hate PAP , ok, not only one, 99% of Singaporeans hate PAP, ok

        3. who will love those bastard PAP ? only bastard loves bastard , ok, not us ,ok !
        4. who planted the Seeds of hatred ? is PAP, ok !
        who created the greedy system ? is PAP , ok !
        who got the 10 millions income still wants more and more ? is PAP !
        who made people become more and more poorer policy , is PAP, ok !
        who took our CPF’s interest and keen on sue our children ? is PAP !

        5, such bastard must to be tried , ok !

        we support Roy , we support poor , we support Singaporeans !!!!
        the same, we love those WHO loves us,
        we hate those WHO hate us !

  29. reply " tan ",

    tan.
    In reality 95% Singapore women can not find a husband , some was picked up by PAP. do his secretary or MP, so you are one of the loser, So we sympathize you, although you have been on the wrong nerve,
    Singapore’s cruel system caused 95% women’s whole life no man, is tragic world.

    So, in Singapore, where are male
    they die at an early age that caused by the exploitation system
    their half income was occupied by ruler, then was forced to go to borrow money, the last being bankrupt.
    Some of them went to Thailand, Indonesia for make a living,
    Some homes were taken away by PAP, died in exile
    Such circumstance
    how do come back to marry you ?

    在现实中95%的新加坡女性找不到老公,有些是被行动党撿起做他的秘书或MP,所以你是裡面输家之一,我们很同情你,虽然你一直在神經搭錯的狀態下, 新加坡的残酷剝削制度造成95%的妇女一生都没有男人,這是最悲慘的世界。

    那么新加坡男人在哪里呢
    他们被坚持剥削的制度搞到英年早逝
    他们的一半的钱被政府霸占而被迫再去借钱,最后被破产。
    他们有的活不下去而跑到泰国印尼谋生,
    他们的家园被PAP夺走后,死在他乡
    这样的行情
    如何回来娶你做妻子 ?

    • say truth

      In Addition, some committed suicide of jump off from 56 floor,
      some become Neuropathy patients, some no money to rent, live with parents untill die, no way to get married,
      after all, Singapore is a plastic. once leader have enough greedy , they don’t think about others. their imaging has changed to become robber

      • say truth

        The difference,the robbers should be in jail, but after they robber , they want we people to thank them. They are used to a long-term bully good people, Until one day foreigners and their son scold us are Pauper.Looking at people’s heart in the bleeding, LHL still laughing. he is inhuman.

  30. Reply To JoannaQuek @ 21 Aug, 10.46am

    Joanna Quek says:
    ” I don’t think you will get back your CPF as no matter which party is the government they all work the same way, help Singapore to grow and if you think policy going to changes much then think twice. ”

    JoannaQuek is telling us a PAP fairy tale.
    1. Who says opposition parties will work the same way as PAP?
    PAP has very low standards.
    Very easy for Opposition to do better.

    2. The only thing PAP wants to help … is to help the Singapore Reserves to grow.
    PAP is not interested in helping Singaporeans.

    Opposition parties are different.
    Opposition parties want to help Singaporeans to grow.
    Because when Singaporeans do better, our Singapore Reserves will also grow.
    PAP is reading the road map upside down.

  31. reply " tan ",

    PAP帶給新加坡人的白色恐怖後遺症要慢慢講, 也有一千零一夜
    PAP brought to Singaporean the White Terror sequelae , need to speak slowly, needs A THOUSAND AND ONE NIGHTS 。

  32. our home our land

    Prime Minister Lee must come to here and bring all people’s voice back home, this is all voice of Singaporeans, ( not include PAP huge income receiver ).

    this is our home, truly

    Yeah Yeah Yeah …..Ah!
    You know that this is our new home
    This place is sacred to the bone
    Don’t put us up against the wall
    You know that this is our home

    I’d like to call this place my own
    To plant this seed and watch it grow
    And teach me things that I don’t know yeah!

    Take us, break us, trample our bones
    We’re made of stone, this is our home
    Burn us, drown us, trade in our souls
    We’re made of stone, this is our home

    You know you don’t want me anymore
    The home was yours you took the door
    One minute here, one minute gone

    Take us, break us, trample our bones
    We’re made of stone, this is our home
    Burn us, drown us, trade in our souls
    We’re made of stone, this is our home

    I said take us, break us, trample our bones
    We’re made of stone, this is our home

    This is our home
    This is our home
    This is our home

  33. petrahawariyun

    So many cross-accusations here: but you can deceive some of the people all the time; and you can deceive all of the people some of the time; but you cannot deceive everyone everytime.

    • Daniel

      the above two
      before you produce any evidence to overthrow of his data, any criticisms about his talent, have been considered you are incompetence.

  34. looley

    @The Oracle and @Lee Xian Loon….who the fck care if The Oracle swear by father and mother and grand fathers…he is already a prostitute and I dot care if he swear by mother cunt, sister cunt and whatever cunt…he is not fit even to wear a skirt, coward to the bone and dare not face even anyone of us here ONE TO ONE! COME TO OUR EVENT la AND let us not waste time to engage a bastardize dog like him whose generation are prostitutes and generations to come same same…licking, digging and wagging every possible holes, giving holes and jerking out under the table while eatig crumbs from the Line Leaders of the regime, pathetic is understatement, even unto the lowest animal like a pig is better then him…GET THE FUCK OUT HERE … you bastardize idiot lowly evolve creature of the century and IF YOU STILL HAVE ANY DIGNITY LEFT, start swearing by your mother cunt…SINCE YOU LIKE SWEARING SO MUCH…that speaks so of your ill up bringing and little education, you bastard!

  35. looley

    “I have no connection to the PAP – and I swear this on the lives of all my family!”
    @The Oracle, who is pathetic here?!! You can and will never survive the onslaught slut of your dog life, is designed since birth and not ONLY you scumbag bastardize dog of the regime, WORST, EVEN THE REGIME discard you and your whole family of dogs…YOU SWEAR ON THE LIVES OF ALL YOUR FAMILY, u are fcking lowest creature ever to do such a thing and bring GREAT GREAT SHAME TO YOU FORE FORE GENERATIONS AND GENERATIONS TO COME…u know what, the joke is on you and your prostitute family and this will go viral in the internet…by e way, WE KNOW WHO YOU ARE AND GUESS WHAT, omg…u are one pathetic bastardize dogs that even the REGIME is laughing and discarding along the drain, not even crumbs for you and family….Aiyoh, if i am u, i will surely open my family legs to be prostituted for some crumbs of bread to be licked!!

  36. Asdasdasd

    I will help you by clicking the ads but I would like you to clarify the reliability of the source. I do agree with you that our Singapore system is elitist but we should wait until there’s a strong political party for Singaporeans to come up before we take extreme stands.

  37. Being constructive

    Dear Oracle, just wanted to say kudos for taking on the onslaught of thrashy comments that have no substance other than name calling and vulgarities. Appreciate your efforts at arguing based on logic and facts. Constructive arguments should be the way to forward for Singapore. On a side note, maybe you should just ignore the thrashy no substance comments. I’m sure we all know that the one with the last say isn’t always the winner. And I’m sure we also know what to think when we see comments with nth but name calling and vulgarities.

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