Tan Chuan-Jin Deleted My Comment to Ask the PAP Government to Be Transparent to Singaporeans on Our CPF

Tan Chuan-Jin Roy Ngerng

Manpower Minister Tan Chuan-Jin shared an article from Business Insider and talked about “how compounding helps us build up our savings”. He added that this is #‎NotMagicJustMaths‬.

Tan Chuan-Jin Facebook Young people who want to have a lot of money in retirement better understand this chart

I decided to leave a comment on his posting. You can read the text below.

(Unfortunately, my comment was deleted within an hour. 😦 I posted the comment on 14 March 2015 10.00pm but by 10.55pm, it was deleted by Tan Chuan-Jin and I have also been also blocked from commenting on his “public” profile. I am not sure why my comment was seen as being so threatening that it had to be deleted. 😛 I thought that I was only asking questions of public interest. You mean this is not allowed in Singapore?)

Maybe you should really read my comment and the links in the comment to see why the PAP finds it so frightening. Will answering the questions I posed affect good governance?

Tan Chuan-Jin Facebook Young people who want to have a lot of money in retirement better understand this chart Roy Ngerng reply edited

Hello Mr Tan Chuan-Jin,

Thank you for sharing this article.

(1) You said that the “Special Account … has interest rates ranging from 4-5% and up to 6% from 55 onwards”. For completeness, actually, the CPF interest rates for the Ordinary, Special and Medisave Account is 2.5% to 4%. Singaporeans only earn an additional 1% on the first $60,000 inside their CPF. The rest of their CPF earns only 2.5% to 4%. Also, only Singaporeans 55 and above are able to earn 6% and this is only on the first $30,000 and will only start in 2016.

(2) On the same note, what is the median CPF balance for ALL Singaporeans – do the majority of Singaporeans actually have more than $60,000 inside their CPF? My estimates show that about half of Singaporeans might actually have lesser than that amount inside our CPF. I recall that you said last year that you would be letting Singaporeans know this figure.

(3) You used the Business Insider’s article to highlight how “compounding helps us build up our savings” but the illustration of the article “assumes a 7% annual return”, for the WHOLE PERIOD of investment which gives very good returns. For Singaporeans, we only get 2.5% to 4% and the additional interest is only for specific amounts and age groups. And only Singaporeans aged 55 and above after 2016 will be able to see the “compounding” effect on only the first $30,000 of their CPF and ironically, based on the article that you shared, would mean that because of the short 10 years that Singaporeans will be able to earn 6% before 65, this means that the “compounding” effect will not be as significant. Would the government and/or the CPF Board consider also illustrating a chart that shows how much the low-income earner (of a cleaner earning a mandated minimum basic wage of $1,000), median-income earner and high-income earner would earn at retirement at 65, with the 2.5% to 4% interest, and the additional complications?

(4) Similarly, would the government and/or the CPF Board also consider illustrating a chart to show how the payouts are calculated and disbursed after 65?

(5) Also, the article that you shared assumes that a person invests the money without using it for other purposes. But this is not practical for the purposes of Singapore, where Singaporeans have to also use our CPF retirement funds for housing, healthcare and education. For example, last year, you talked about how Singaporeans have to spend an average of 55% of our CPF Ordinary Account to pay off the housing loans. This complicates the issue. Would the government and/or CPF Board consider illustrating how much Singaporeans would be able to save at 65 for the different income groups, after factoring in how much Singaporeans have to subtract from the CPF to pay for housing, healthcare and education? Also, is it possible to know how much Singaporeans are then losing from their CPF because of the the subtraction?

(6) In addition, Singaporeans also have to pay an accrued interest when we take out the CPF to pay for housing and education. This would mean an additional amount that we would have to pay into the CPF, which again complicates the issue. Is it possible to include the accrued interest into the illustration, if the government and/or CPF Board would be so kind as to do

https://thehearttruths.com/2014/04/02/truth-exposed-the-dirty-cpf-hdb-scheme-to-trick-singaporeans/

(7) Additionally, Singapore’s system is also complicated because our CPF is actually invested in government bonds, which are then invested in the reserves which are managed by the GIC (and where some of it was channelled into the Temasek Holdings). Today, the CPF earns a declared 2.5% to 4% while the GIC and Temasek Holdings earn an estimated 6% to 16%. Singaporeans are losing as much as half of our CPF to the government because of this. If the government and/or CPF Board were to illustrate how much Singaporeans would earn at 65, would the government and/or CPF Board also illustrate how much Singaporeans are also losing to the GIC and Temasek Holdings, and therefore the government?

https://thehearttruths.com/2014/08/13/how-much-cpf-are-singaporeans-losing-to-the-government/

(8) Also, the government has previously not admitted to how our CPF is actually invested in the GIC and Temasek Holdings but I was managed to trace how the CPF is invested in these two agencies. The government thereafter deleted the information from the websites where I had traced the information. Also, the government claims that it “does not interfere” in the GIC and the GIC also up until last year claimed that it does not know if it uses our CPF to invest because this is “not made explicit” to them by the government. However, the prime minister, two deputy prime ministers, several ministers and ex-ministers also sit on the GIC’s board of directors, so clearly there is a conflict of interest. Finally, the government denied that the CPF is invested in 2001, 2006 and 2007 and made an about turn last year and admitted to this. Would you like to comment on this as well?

https://thehearttruths.com/2014/08/07/50-truths-singaporeans-finally-know-about-our-cpf-on-singapores-50th-birthday/

(9) Finally, the CPF interest rates of 2.5% have been found to be the lowest among all retirement funds in the world. This means that Singaporeans are earning the lowest returns, which also explains why many of our elderly Singaporeans are unable to retire today, and so many foreigners who come to Singapore constantly ask Singaporeans why our elderly Singaporeans have to work in menial labour and and are unable to retire. It is quite embarrassing that as a developed country with one of the highest GDP per capita in the world, we cannot afford to take care of our elderly. Do Singaporeans have to tell foreigners that our elderly Singaporeans cannot retire because the government does not take care of them? Would the government consider increasing the CPF interest rates to 6% for all age groups and for all amounts, so that all Singaporeans will be able to save enough to retire, and the “compounding” that you highlighted here will actually come true? #‎NotMagicJustMaths‬ Or would the government consider allowing the management of the CPF to be transparent, similar to the Hong Kong’s system where their citizens are able to choose where their retirement funds are invested in, how much they can earn and really take responsibility for their own funds?

http://www.theonlinecitizen.com/2014/04/cpf-returns-are-the-lowest-in-the-world/

(10) Last but not least, the GIC and Temasek Holdings are today ranked the top 10 sovereign wealth funds in the world but the CPF has been ranked by the OECD as the least adequate among OECD and Asia-Pacific countries. May I know why there is this discrepancy, where the GIC and Temasek Holdings, which take the CPF retirement funds of Singaporeans to use, are able to earn so much, but where Singaporeans have to actually earn so little in our retirement funds? If the GIC and Temasek Holdings are able to earn so much, surely our CPF should also rank as one of the most adequate? May I know what happened along the line when the CPF was taken away to be given to the GIC and Temasek Holdings to use? Perhaps instead of investing the CPF in government bonds, then into the reserves and then into the GIC and Temasek Holdings, it would be more transparent and direct if the CPF of Singaporeans are directly invested in funds which Singaporeans have a direct say over and where Singaporeans are able to manage for ourselves. This way, even as the government wants to be secretive about the GIC, the government can do that for all they want and the CPF retirement funds of Singaporeans are still protected and where the management of the funds will then be transparent and accountable.

In Deputy Teo Chee Hean’s words, “what do you think?” I look forward to receiving a response from you.

Just to add, I think young people in Singapore understand how “compounding” can help us to “have a lot of money”. I think on the contrary, Singaporeans believe that the PAP government does not understand this.

Thank you.

Roy Ngerng Yi Ling

Tan Chuan-Jin #‎NotMagicJustMaths‬

So, what do you think? Do you think the questions should have been answered?

Since Tan Chuan-Jin does not want to answer my question, he might answer yours.

You can share my blog post or better still, copy and paste the questions onto your blog, Facebook and/or Twitter and put the hashtag #‎NotMagicJustMaths right at the front. This is the hashtag that Tan Chuan-Jin used in his post so he is likely to also take note of your post.

If you think the questions asked are reasonable and fair, and that the government should answer to them, share the questions and get the government to answer to them.

*****

(My comment was deleted but you can see the full screenshot that I took of my reply, before it was deleted. 😦 )

Tan Chuan-Jin Facebook Young people who want to have a lot of money in retirement better understand this chart Roy Ngerng reply full edited

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53 comments

    • Roy Ngerng

      As it is obvious that I do a screen shot first of my post, then waited every minute which I already anticipated he will delete my post. Atlast, at 55 mins later, which I did not expect to wait very long in the first place, mu post was deleted. It was also a trap I lay. If he answer, I would rebutted every point from him even if it is a goof and valid point. If he deletes, which he already did, I will post “why would he do this” unless something to hide. Either way, he will lose. It works like this.

    • QQ

      This post is safe, the deleted post is about the interviewer come to an independent conclusion that Roy claimed the PM take CPF for his(PM) own benefit.

      • @ QQ = Jim = Jg = A spokeswoman for the Prime Minister's Office

        QQ = Jim = Jg = A spokeswoman for the Prime Minister’s Office

  1. questions for roy

    Hey Roy, there’s a fixed deposit with 11% interest rate. It’s in India. Do you suggest a CPF member to place his money into this fixed deposit?

      • questions for roy

        Roy didn’t answer leh.. But I have another question. How are the YMCA children ah? You visited them? Not yet? Boh swee lah you.

      • @ QQ = Jim = Jg = A spokeswoman for the Prime Minister's Office

        tell you what ? you ? use ” QQ ” now ? what about ” Jim ” or ” Jg ” ?
        you use the same logo different symbol. work as spokeswoman inside the Prime Minister’s Office .

        you are one of the bitch gangs in the LEE’ s OFFICE, organized the campaign of self- disfigurement
        we Remind LEE , when that day he step down he may think how come he hire you such low bitch screw up everything .

    • Jack Simpleton

      No need to talk about this interest lah, that yield lah. Return our money first than talk. You asking as if we have a choice as to where our CPF goes to.

  2. questions for roy

    Sorry Roy, the latest figures show a 1-year fixed deposit with 29%. 29%!!!!!!!! It’s in Belarus. CPF members must all put their money into Belarusbank! What do you think?

    • Jack Simpleton

      You find a 1000% interest also means $hitlah if you yourself don’t have control where your money goes to.

  3. questions for roy

    Roy, I have money in DBS savings with 0.05%. But now I found out that DBS use my money to make car loans at 1.5%. Can I ask DBS to give me the difference?

    • Stupid Question

      This is the most stupid question. You must be a PAP supporter..
      No one forced you to save with DBS with 0.05% interest. If not happy you can withdrawl 100% from DBS and put your money somewhere else.. no need to ask such brain-dead question.

      But it is entirely different with CPF !
      With CPF you can no longer withdraw 100% at 55 years old, which was originally promised.
      With CPF you are paid only about 3% interest when other retire funds in other countries are paying around 6%.or more. Think about the difference in the compounding effect!
      With CPF they are telling you now it is not entirely your money..

      • questions for roy

        Hi Mr stupid, actually I do CPF investment also. CPF IA offer stocks, unit trusts. Even gold also! A few times, I make a lot. Huat ah! Sometimes, I lose. But overall, I beat CPF 2.5 by a little bit only. I dare not do special account. 4% hard to beat lah.

        You say leh? You got any stock tips or not?

  4. questions for roy

    I bought a company bond 1 year ago giving me 2%. After 1 year, the company gave dividends of 10% on the company stocks. My bond money was also used by the company just like stock money. Roy, can I claim back 8% from the company?

    • Jack Simpleton

      You see, the difference is – you made that choice. You took the risk because you understand the potential loss and gain. But I am a simpleton, I don’t understand the concept of loss and gain. I don’t want my money invested. I’m more than happy let it stagnate year by year and accumulate on its (forced) monthly contribution alone. Why don’t I have the option of withdrawing my money when I hit maturity doing to my money as I see fit?

      • guru

        With CPF, you can make your own personal choice of CPF investments too. You do have a choice to buy something else instead of government bonds which is the default for CPF funds left alone. The government has always allow every CPF member to make their own investment choice.

        However, you won’t hear about this from Roy. Roy just can’t to tell you this fact. This fact is inconvenient to his storyline.

  5. questions for roy

    I gave my housewife allowance every month. She shared TOTO with some friends. Now, they strike. Can I claim my share from them?
    *Of course, if they lose, then it’s none of my business.* shhh..

  6. You asked for it

    Hahaha that was so funny keep the questions for Roy coming up with no replies at all just like how Chuan Jin feels that Roy is not worth his time!!!!

    Sometimes it’s not about fearing Roy it’s about not giving a clown who happens to be cowardly and lying his attention that he craves so desperately.

    What a self delusional egocentric “activist@ who secretly dreams of grandeur 😏😏

    • Stupid Question

      So you agreed with these stupid questions posted above?
      Roy did not delete those stupid questions. He just left it there for us to see how stupid and pretentious the questions are.
      If you say Chuan Jin feels Roy is not worth his time, that is fine, but why need to delete Roy’s post? Isn’t deleting the post needs time and effort? Lame!

      • jan

        Is Roy even an MP? He is nobody or a stupid activists which we already get plenty of these unwanted pple. Anybody on the street can be activitist. Use your brain “stupid” as you have in your name.

      • QQ

        That is why Roy need not answer to any question posed by “questions for Roy”, the answer is in the question.

      • @ QQ = Jim = Jg = A spokeswoman for the Prime Minister's Office

        such comments comes from PM’s OFFICE woman — ” QQ ” ? last year used ” Jim ” or “Jg ” or ….
        turn back the page to the beginning of last year , the same logo on behalf of Lee Hsien Loong’s OFFICE, using you a few cats to control Roy .Hello Ms Jim, you result LHL become the shameless PM !

  7. QQ

    On the other hand Roy’s question is not really a question, it is a speech, it is his conviction rightly or wrongly. Therefore also no answer required. Roy also did expect an answer.

      • @ QQ = Jim = Jg = A spokeswoman for the Prime Minister's Office

        Ms. ” Jim “,
        Ms. spokeswoman for the Prime Minister’s Office

        you better change a new logo if you want to destroy Roy , otherwise your appear shows you bitch gangs no need political certificate still got high pay job in the Prime Minister’s Office ?

        Conversely you proved that current Prime Minister he’s just a coward, what about he got 2.2 million power ? he must show Singaporeans he is a man, is a leader ! instead of he hide himself debate with Roy, but he is good at use you OFFICE bitch gangs participate the debates,

        no seriously substance, who is the Plaintiff ? is you bitch gangs ? then you make submit your real name to the Court !

  8. Suckers

    Housing is the biggest casino product and the most understated form of gambling in Sin. It is the fastest way to create a super rich class of powerful individuals while enslaving the masses of mediocre class in hope of striking it rich. Many are seduced and the temptations of “ownership” will ruin many lives.

    A S$347,750 tour with one aim: Get chinese to buy a home

    http://m.todayonline.com/world/americas/s347750-tour-one-aim-get-chinese-buy-home

    Mr Liu teamed up with SouFun in December to take 10 Chinese investors on a real estate prospecting trip to San Francisco, Los Angeles and New York.

    US$39 BILLION

    The numbers are staggering. Chinese made wealthy by a 10-fold expansion in the nation’s gross domestic product spent US$39 billion on global real estate in the six years ended in 2014, up from US$92 million in 2008, according to Real Capital Analytics.

    Such investment is pushing up prices in cities around the world. In Sydney, home prices jumped almost 14 per cent during the past year, prompting an alarmed Australian government to propose tougher rules and fines for foreigners who “illegally” buy homes.

  9. lea xian loon

    Its not new that genuine public concerns get removed from PAP members’ social and public media.

    PAP members’ social and public media only allow its arse-lickers comments to be screened

    How do you think PAP get its notorious name of poor PR?

  10. Viper

    roy is full of bullshit so much so that not a single opposition party member even endorses him or speak up for him. What a joke. This is the most pathetic government hater who doesn’t have any support at all.

    • You asked for it

      I am absolutely certain that he’s highly concerned about his lack of support from opposition.

      He just can’t understand why they will see him as a liability. For all his lies about just wanting to stand up for singaporeans, that deep ego in him secretly desires to be in politics and he feels that he deserves to be in politics.

      Remember how last year he wrote that he was fixed thats why his application for ncmp was rejected?

      Lol?? What is he compared to all the other applicants? He hardly has any credentials at all. Just a blogger wannabe politician lol

  11. THE SIXTEN

    In the past 10 years, Prime Minister LHL has not been in the working states, he confuse the country , who is the Prime Minister ? Is the OFFICe bitch team !

    He file a lawsuit , But he never appear in the Court ? The Constitution did not allow he had the privilege before the law than others, look at here: http://therealsingapore.com/content/president-tony-tan-related-supreme-leader-lee-kuan-yew

    Why Singapore judge have to report to PM ?

    Because Singapore judges are appointed by the President of Singapore, And current Singapore President Tony Tan is current Singapore Prime Minister Lee mother sister’s nephew.

    therefore the PM LEE family has private ties with President Tony Tan, thus it confidence of seize Singaporeans pension back to PM office bitch team, they are above the law

    LEE hand over his private lawsuit to his office bitch gangs join the saliva war. he authorised the bitch team misleading local medias. He engaged in a gangsta’s way through the guise of a few office female cats

    As an result or consequence of this, he must resign .

  12. Viper

    Do you even know what is a summary judgement ? To educate you, it is when a court decides that the case is a lose cause for the accused without doubt. Anyone can get a summary judgement if the facts shows that it is conclusive. Pls study more before coming here to rant. School holiday don’t play all the time.

      • lolz

        1. ad hominem fallacy. you can’t refute the point made so you make a personal attack – well done! totally characteristic of the majority of people who support Ngerng or the anti-government. you think the points raised are invalid just because the person who made them disagrees with you.

        2. do you really think the PM has to resort to such measures as hiring people to argue with the likes of you on some scorned, vengeful and angry activist’s website? he could shut the entire blog down if he wanted. why would he waste his money and office space?

  13. Jack Simpleton

    I don’t give a fvck abt Roy and his findings and I certainly don’t give a fvck about all these investments, bonds, interests etc you high rollers love playing. I don’t care how much money was made, have been made or will be made.
    My question is simple – Return me my money at 55. Let me decide if I want to save it, spend it or burn it as hell money. You can keep all the profits/interest/yields that was made. I just want the principle sum that was deducted monthly since my working life. Can?

    • huh?

      Batam mistress asking for money, is it? Or is it you want to try your hand at MBS and Sentosa?

      Or you just throwing tantrum? Next time, when finances dried up, who’ll support you? Roy the so-called Singaporean saviour?

    • lolz

      obviously cannot… then you burn already what will you live off for the 20-30 years after you’re 55 years old? hell give you food housing electricity is it?

  14. Halimah

    I think police is on the watch for large gathering of people protesting in the year of jubilation. What do you think?

  15. Plim

    You all need a gay to lead you through your nose ? Someone who has lied and apologized for his lies ? Seriously ? Oh my.

  16. Plim

    Which foreign country has supported Roy’s cause to change government ? None. So is his trip to Norway wasted ? All he had done was just to give a talk a a student event, and paint Singapore a bad picture when interview by French press. What a fantastic achievement you have done for Singapore.

    • lolz

      exactly LOL which foreign country will criticize Singapore when they all have money here? how could they possibly gain from going against Singapore?

      btw what happened to the post with his transcript of the interview at the French radio station?

      • @ The Oracle

        local people can not criticize, foreigner can not criticize, you rules the world ? be patient , when the time coming .

  17. Tracy Tang

    Hi Roy, I seems to notice that you have deleted my comments on your facebook page as well, on top of that I seems to be blocked. Is this just my misconception or it’s just a case of pot and kettle?

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