My Defence: “Allegation is False and Without Foundation, Claim for Damages Unnecessary and Unwarranted”

 

 

 

 

 

 

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217 comments

  1. Chris

    Omg, I can’t help to type something here.
    Roy, u r good at making a fool, man. Did u write this urself or Ravi?
    This is so funny that it needs to be put into Singapore joke book….

    • Ding hua

      Hi darling, what is so funny about your chopstick? I am having fun riding on it when it broke suddenly. Hope the surgeon able to stitch it back for you. O

      • ronnie

        @Ding hua. Are you a moron or a sex maniac? Making fun of Roy just because he is gay? Go and screw a rat yourself.

        If you are male, you have no balls and probably a broken dick. If you are a female, then you must be…I better not go on.

        I have no respect for gutter rats such as you.

  2. Ding hua

    Xi Jing Ping would make a much better PM. No need sue his opponents to get things done. Even Ai Weiwei is not his match.

  3. Chris

    Roy
    Remember, Dun run away before ur trial, ok? If u do, please dun take away the donations. Becos these donations r for ur trial, not runaway expenses…
    Btw, good job. U make chc case disappear from st. Even serina wee also lose to u.

    • Ding hua

      Hi darling, why are you running away from me???? Did you take the donation money? Why you keep running???

      • ronnie

        Roy is battle-hardened. It takes guts to go on stage in front of thousands and speak his mind. He has not been sued for his speeches at Speakers Corners.

        Those scum-bags who are just gutter rats and mongrels who make fun or snipe at Roy can go and scew spiders for all I care.

    • Chris

      What truth?
      The cpf is as it is. Govt didn’t lie.
      But this Roy is trying to get famous by making a non-issue become an issue. U need to look at cpf and other official website. Also, u can compare with USA social security website, it is in general quite similar. Americans r not doing that better than us. Americans may prefer our cpf system instead. But due to political disharmony, no party wants the other party to roll out a better system. Becos what benefits America will mean a discredit to the party who didn’t roll it out…
      Dun be fooled by Roy. Go read the official websites instead of listening to ppl like Roy…

      • Ding hua

        Hi Darling, lie. Lie down. Surgeon says your stick broken cannot be fixed. You need to lie down and stop talking…
        China is doing much better. I hope Singapore can learn from China.
        God bless China.

      • Samuel

        Well said Peter. If you have nothing constructive to add, please keep the spam to yourself. Thanks.

  4. lee xian loon

    Hang in there, Roy. The public is seeing how LHL is making a fool of himself internationally as his ‘defences’ are as strong as his family’s reputation..

    Don’t worry so much about davindar singh too, he shall abruptly lose power once lky pass away this year, and be tried for subverting human rights

  5. Ace

    “If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favour freedom, and yet deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without ploughing up the ground. They want rain without thunder and lightning. They want the ocean without the roar of its many waters. …Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will. …Find out just what people will submit to, and you have found the exact amount of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them; and these will continue until they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress.”
    ― Frederick Douglass

    • choofrfreoer

      So are you espousing struggling, even if it is only for the sake of struggling? That’s a weird notion. In the U.S., it’s akin to “filibustering”, and it doesn’t exactly have a nice connotation

  6. Pingback: Blogger Roy Ngerng says in his defence that PM's claim for damages is unwarranted | Singapore Property Index
  7. Kantang

    You buggers never learn, do you? I hope the PM bankrupts you so every month your meagre salary goes to the PM instead.

    • terminator

      Fuck you, CCB! I hope one of your family member die or get cancer every month until all of them die.

    • ronnie

      There is a bigger force upstairs. Remember someone already got cancer once. Any assurance it will not occur again? It is better to be kind and live to a ripe old age.

      Remember…Karma.

  8. ltk

    Just go and prove yourself in court. No use posting here unless there is more than that u want.. people emotion and more money.

    Im going to buy 4d now. Hope i strike then i thank you.

  9. wtf

    this is like a weak lamo telling opponent – u have no rights to challenge me to a fight..
    obviously they’re very afraid but in the same time they keep playing a fool & create scene
    even when u’re in the losing position that doesnt mean u have to be an useless loser unless own voluntarily

  10. Ah Kai

    Hey Roy, you’re digging deeper into your own grave.

    If I were you, I will give up all this blogging business, take out a formal one-page apology in the Straits Times promising to stop all your nonsense, then hope the PM is merciful enough to forgive you and call this whole thing off.

    • ronnie

      Roy has the protection under the Constitution of Singapore. He has the right to defend himself. We will await the outcome. Also remember there is the Court of Public Opinion. And they will express themselves come GE 2016 or earlier.

      Wisdom should prevail. History has shown that martyrs are made of steel. Only those who are scared shit will run away.

      • choofrfreoer

        “Wisdom should prevail”

        Unfortunately, it isn’t prevailing in Roy Ngerng’s case. A smart person would shut up completely, knowing that further publicity about the case will increase the damages.

        Roy Ngerng has the right to defend and he should rightly do so in court. But why is he doing it in the public sphere, with M. Ravi knowing full well that this gives Davinder Singh more justification for his damage claims?

        Nope, wisdom isn’t prevailing.

  11. ronnie

    Recent Court rulings have shown surprises. Convictions have been over-turned. Appeals have been granted. I await the court trial and may even attend the sessions.

    There is always the possibility that tough cross-examinations put either party into tight corners. It depends on the skill of the lawyers. This will be the Fight of the Decade.

    • choofrfreoer

      Look at the way Roy Ngerng frames his arguments. What hope is there of him surviving the cross-examination? Judges are well aware of logical fallacies, unlike the general audience who reads his blog.

      Roy Ngerng should just shut up about this case already if he wants to get off easier.

  12. Deaf Frog's toothpick

    there is a saying that fengshui goes in cycles, when your luck is running out, better not test water.

    some ppl’s luck have been going on downslope for quite some time already, if you notice, retribution for them tend to come quick and furious,

    after someone said something to the effect that floods occur once 50years, the heavens immediately contradicted this person by sending so many floods to that everyone’s age increased by a 3digit figure.

    after someone was gleefully laughing at others for extramarital affair, they found themselves fighting a by-election of their own due to the same reason.

    how will this saga end? retribution come quick and furious? better not be surprised when it does.

      • Deaf Frog's toothpick

        stupid is an opinion, which gives us a good opportunity to talk about truths,

        contrary to the beliefs of some ppl, opinions are not truths regardless whether they are hard or soft.

        beliefs are not truths either, even if you describe you beliefs as “Hard Beliefs”.

      • Deaf Frog's toothpick

        and lets just say that when Lord Voldemort tried to kill baby harry, the killing curse backfired and he killed himself instead.

  13. johnny

    hey roy, if you have the gut to make baseless allegation, you should have the gut to defend what you alleged. dont cry baby!!!

    • joseph

      Hey Johnny, then you must be a dog. Only bark and bark but no guts to take action against someone who you alleged to make a baseless accusation. I challenge you go buy a knife and stab on the one who you make accusations. Or did you lose your guts?

      • johnny

        hey u are a bitch, my friend!!! who are you opposition party under the skirts. u got gut…then you make the same allegation. u dare!! dare not then u are coward

  14. johnny

    Warning! dont shake up the peace and prosperity this country has enjoyed. if it is lies better to own up.

    • joseph

      What peace and prosperity. The CPF scheme looks more like a scam with interest rate below inflation.. Roy is doing us a favour by exposing the inadequacies of CPF. Those saying he is disrupting peace are the real jokers.

  15. Dr. Tan

    After the lawsuit concludes, you should leave the country and leave all this behind you.
    Go start a new life. And for goodness sake stay away from the limelight.
    All the best in your future endeavors!

    –Tan

    • choofrfreoer

      Leave? Easy to say. Roy Ngerng has already proven to be a “political dissident”. Which country would embrace him with open arms, knowing full well that he could do the same once in their country?

  16. MJ Zhu

    Dear Roy,

    I salute your courage and strength to persevere. I have little faith in legal documents, therefore I did not read the document. You probably are aware of: 1) miscarriage of justice 2) legal system is rooted on evidence with the ability to argue logically, reasonably. It falls short of revealing the truth in our hearts.

    3) therefore, the party with the deeper pocket to hire the best vocal and quick mind with paper evidence, is better placed to win – are you in this position? If you are not, then we must try stay away from the courts. Instead, we must tug at the heart of the plaintiff. If PM Lee Hsien Long is the plaintiff, I would like to believe he is a regular person with a regular heart, blessed with the good commandments of our Creator with sound moral compass taught by religion. 

    He has been schooled at Catholic High and if the basic moral teachings of doing good for the community, to forgive (for our own good instead of harbouring hatred), then Catholic High hadn’t done him justice in the formation of his moral compass. Furthermore his own life story, the pains of losing his first wife, a son not quite the same as other children, these impacts are significant as depicted by his emotions as he delivered some of the speeches. He understands suffering and pain for the better.

    I believe he is a good man, like his father. Furthermore he is modern enough to keep up with the times of the newer generations, allowing himself to be “dressed up” for the cameras and spotlights that men his era generally shun.

    Every human being is born good but with the propensity to be otherwise. This otherwise is much the reflection of our life’s experiences. There really is no reason for him to seek more power, more wealth.

    In all probability, he did not fully understand The Truth in your Heart. Therefore, if we can render him The Truth, help him Feel the Truth, we stand a better chance of achieving a better end. If it is difficult for men to make a thousand apologies, perhaps your female followers can gather together to make that pitch. I will be happy to join in.

    Concerned Singaporean MJ

    • Ding hua

      Hi Michael, this is Ding hua.. I heard your PM first wife is a doctor. How did she die? Did she commit suicide?
      I am a new citizen here. Can tell me more.

      • Deaf Frog's toothpick

        @ DIng Hua

        Teh Cheang Wan is the one who committed suicide, before doing that he made sure to take the opportunity to glory himself as “an honourable oriental gentleman”.

      • Ding hua

        Hi Deaf Frog’s toothpick, what happen? Who is Teh Cheang Wan and why did he commit suicide. Please feel me the info.

  17. Peter

    Put simply, CPF is paying me 2.5% and 4% but banks pay less then 1% for term deposits – and I only pay 1.2% on my mortgage – so I am very happy with CPF right now.

    Also, 10 year Singapore government bonds only yield 2.4% – this is a good benchmark regarding the value CPF offers Singapore citizens.

    The government, like any well-run insurance company would, pays us interest then invests our CPF money. When it makes a profit via GIC or Temasek, this additional money is available to either build our reserves or invest back into society via infrastructure projects, CPF top-ups, Citizenship bonuses, etc. To suggest any additional money generated has been misappropriated is to show ignorance of how the CPF scheme works – and business and government in general.

    Singapore enjoys one of the least corrupt governments in the world (search for Corruption Perceptions Index from Transparency International) as opposed to our neighbours who don’t score so highly. Government here does not just mean the PAP – it means all the civil servants, the judiciary, etc. Do you really think they are all in some huge conspiracy to take your CPF money rather than trying to ensure more Singaporeans have enough savings for their retirement?

    Roy seems to think so and I suspect he is about to get some education via the Singapore courts. Whether he learns the lesson or not we’ll have to see.

    • Chris

      @peter,
      Thanks for presenting the facts. Many ppl before u had tried.
      Unfortunately, Roy and friends will counter every one of ur points or ignore them altogether. Many folks have tried to reason here unsuccessfully and I do not think u will succeed.
      But if ur thoughts r similar to mine, I assume we r here not to change Roy and friends. Rather, it is to prevent any unwitting Singaporeans who visit his blog and gets “educated” in falsehoods.

      • Peter

        Thanks Chris. I don’t expect to succeed against some of these ignorant/rude people but, yes, at least I can present the basic facts.

    • Deaf Frog's toothpick

      @ Peter

      lets just put it this way, in your first 2 paragraphs, you are basically trying to say that if your penis is 1cm at maximum erection, it is ok, because an eunuch is worse than you.

      any Malaysian can put money in bank’s fix deposit in their own country in ringgit and beat 2.5% with both eyes closed, the EPF will leave the CPF in the the rearview mirror and in the words of some clowns here, it is also 0% risk.

      • Peter

        You are yet showing ignorance (and rudeness). 1% in Singapore Dollars is better than 3% in Malaysian Ringgit as the Ringgit is very likely to depreciate relative to the Singapore Dollar. You need to learn about the currency markets, carry trade, and economics in general. You’re just another idiot making false comparisons with a weak grasp of reality.

      • Chris

        @peter,
        Why r u exposing the “secret of forex fundamentals”?
        Its suppose to be a secret. But xxxxtoothpick should understand becos he’s not stupid. but he’s just “cherry picking” to pull u down.

      • Deaf Frog's toothpick

        @ Peter
        how very droll, now we have a economic version of grammar police.

        i take it that you concede on the original point since your only response is “rudeness”, rudeness is not really an argument, but an opinion. “Penis” is a proper anatomical term, your definition of rudeness is perhaps too generous?

        you have made a silly attempt at a straw-man argument by trying to change my example in to a Singaporean putting $ in Malaysia bank fix deposit and ending up risking currency exchange losses.

        obviously there is no forex risk when I am apparently taking about a Malaysian living in Malaysia putting money in bank fix deposit and EPF in ringgit. I stated it explicitly in the original comment, is there a case of selective blindness on your part?

        basically a Malaysian living in his own native ecosystem can easily beat a Singaporean living in his own native ecosystem on the 2.5% return given by CPF by doing something as simple as putting ringgits in fix deposit.

        btw, as a side note, the moment i see the word “likely” i immediately strike off whatever that was written in the same sentence, i do this in every discussion. there is no value in it.

      • Peter

        If by “economic version of grammar police” you mean I stick to the facts then thank you.

        As for the rest of your post I’ve either already answered it or choose not to go down to your gutter level.

      • Deaf Frog's toothpick

        @Peter

        well, think what you want to think of it, the point you brought up is not fundamentally incorrect on it own but not applicable in my example.

        and grammar police are not necessarily good in english in the first place, but despite their inadequacies they do enjoy correcting others from their high horse.

        once there was a child who was sent to learn chinese calligraphy by his dad, his teacher taught this child how to write 1 (which is a horizontal stroke 一), and then 2 (which is 2 horizontal stroke 二) and then 3 (which is 3 horizontal stroke 三).

        this child at this point of time tot he had learnt it all, so he poured the ink on his teacher’s head and proclaimed himself to be the master and when home confident of conquering the world.

        then his father came to check on him, his father told him to write the chinese word for ten-thousand and bring it to his study room before dinner.

        needless to say, there was no dinner for that child that day because he was busy drawing 10000 horizontal lines.

      • Chris

        @….. Toothpick,
        U r not stupid, but this trick is reused many times.
        Your theory is not wrong, a Malaysian in Malaysia will be ok, as per Singaporean in Singapore. On surface, Malaysia current FD is higher than 2.5%, ignoring that forex risk since u r Malaysian staying in Malaysia.
        But note that u must take everything Malaysia offers, salary, living conditions, living standards, job types available, etc….
        I know a lot of Chinese Malaysians migrating out of Malaysia to other countries including to Singapore. But ppl migrating to Malaysia seems to be less in comparison. Do u know why? I believe u should know the reasons.
        Every countries have pros and cons, reasons why taxes and interest rates to be positioned as such. To just cherry pick the “good” and ignore the “bad”, is not really smart unless u really wants to become a native of that country u pick as an example.
        Good try!

      • choofrfreoer

        Talk so much for what? Simple reply: If Malaysia is better, why not migrate there? Because Singapore is better!

        You can’t just compare one aspect. Want to compare, must compare the entire country and all aspects.

      • choofrfreoer

        By the way, the person who says “I won’t migrate because Singapore is my country” and “I’ll just complain and vote the government out” is a silly person. Smarter people would have taken control of their lives and left for better places long ago.

      • Chris

        @choo…
        In summary, u r correct. But to put across so “crudely”, ppl like Roy may not comprehend. Or they may shoot it down by saying this reason has no basis… If u had followed, ppl like Roy do not like to migrate. They prefer to choose only good things from other countries and ask why can’t we have the same in sg. By doing so, they understandably “feed” a growing greed existing in all of us. The difference is, ppl with logic and common sense will not be affected. Ppl with common sense must therefore quash such nonsense by Roy from spreading like a disease.
        When I try to put things across, I try not to use high level stats and difficult theories that mind boggle everyone. Causing ppl to agree becos they dun “understand” or dun know whether ur figures r right or wrong.
        I also dun want to lose credibility becos different figures and charts r more correct or wrong than others. So, which to choose?

        Thus, I try to reason out in my own mind how to bring my reasonings across. As simply as possible…

      • Deaf Frog's toothpick

        @Chris

        i don’t think it is a trick, i am just describing how other citizens are living in their own environment.

        our politicians, civil servants, diplomats like to compare SG to other countries all the time and vice versa, especially when we “win”, do you think they are tricking you when they do that? if you do, you better sound out in public.

        recently in parliament PM cited 2 examples of foreign visitors saying how good SG is and how bad their own country is, that is acceptable but if they say the opposite, it is not acceptable anymore? are they tricking you? or are you suggesting that the PM is tricking you when he is describing how foreign citizens are living in their own environment?

      • Deaf Frog's toothpick

        @ choofrfreoer
        quote u:”You can’t just compare one aspect. Want to compare, must compare the entire country and all aspects.”

        this is a half-truth,

        firstly on practicality, someone cites a statistic of country A in 2 sentences, maybe took 2minutes to write.

        you want to write and plonk down a thesis comparing every aspect of country A and B in response? how long are you going to take? this is casual internet discussion you know? you think this is a job?

        (ok i concede, some ppl are paid to do this full time, cannot blame them if they think this is a job.)

        secondly, comparing all aspect are not necessarily better, when you expand the scope to a national level, your can write a 30 page report on a comparison, some individual comparisons might be worth investigating, but it is also easy for ppl to write off the whole comparison in 1 sentence.

        for example if you compare HK and SG, HK has no defence expenditure, therefore, it’s an apple-orange comparison. end of story, baby goes out with the bath water.

        you talk very loud now with your half truth, but when some powerful politicians starts to compare individual stats of HK and SG, i do not think you will tell them to compare the entire country.

      • Chris

        @… Toothpick,
        Everyone wants to present the “good” or “bad” examples of their country when one tries to make a presentation depends on their topic. Maybe to use “trick” is not such a good word to use. I choose “present” instead then. Only pertaining to ur example of Malaysians in Malaysia topic.

    • Deaf Frog's toothpick

      even more recently, a diplomat, Jacky Foo, the consul-general of Singapore in Hong Kong, cited international studies like the Edelman Trust Barometer in response to Catherine lim.

      you are saying he is not comparing? the studies are comparing nations and he is basing his argument on the comparison.

      so, are we saying we can compare when we “win”, but we bury our heads in the sand when it is inconvenient to compare?

  18. Chris

    Above is link to a YouTube clip on Singapore healthcare. Since Roy is ignorant of the good stuff of our sg healthcare and some ppl may prefer an Ang moh to explain some details to u instead of our govt.
    Of cos, our healthcare is more encompassing than this 8 min clip. But just look at this clip as a summary of our sg healthcare system….

    • Chris

      Just to add, I am not digressing from Roy’s topic. Healthcare is also a topic close to Roy’s agenda of cpf.
      And Roy being a ex-healthcare worker should have learnt something during his work. Unfortunately, he had missed out a large part of the good things that came with cpf. I am doing him a favour to inform ppl visiting his blog things he missed out….
      Lastly Roy, please do more thorough research dun waste another 2-4 years of ur “research life” again.

    • Chris

      Oh yah,
      Medifund is one of the 3M of our healthcare. This medifund is from govt to the poor. Since Roy kept harping that sg govt has no welfare to our poor. Then maybe Roy should tell the govt to remove this “M” and all the rest of subsidies. After doing so, Roy can then make an issue with govt. Stupid, right?

      • Ding hua

        Hi Chris, your stick needs more than medifund to get it fixed. Have you tried ObamaCare? O is better than M 🙂

    • Deaf Frog's toothpick

      @Chris
      this ang mo is basically going around cherry-picking info about other healthcare systems so that he can show how the healthcare system in his own country is falling short, therefore it needs change.

      does he really believe we have a great system? if it is so great he would want to adopt it for his own country, but that is never his intention(if you watch his other videos, you’ll realise his allegiance is to Obamacare not SG healthcare), you will never catch him recommending anything from our system for his own country no matter how nicely he puts it.

      count the number of times he use the world “change”, at the end of the video you will realise that the greatest virtue he can see in SG’s healthcare system is “change”, or rather openness to change, all the other things he said before that is just a packaging for his main agenda.

      and you are so smart to actually lick it all up, good job.

      • Chris

        @toothpick
        If u feel he’s cherry picking then cherry picking lor.
        If Roy is cherry picking and u feel he’s not cherry picking also can lor.
        No Govt is not perfect in the world is perfect. That’s why our govt will make changes to enhance policies to make them better.
        Anyway, u voice ur position, I voice mine. I’m good with that. Freedom of speech is given to all ppl in Singapore.

      • Chris

        Oh. I meant
        “No govt is perfect in this world”
        U see, I’m not so perfect myself…. Lol.
        Neither r u.

      • Deaf Frog's toothpick

        I just find it sad when ppl use their warm faces to warm up other ppls cold buttocks when they are obviously not the target audience.

        I remember a HK tv programme i watched sometime ago, it clearly presented itself as a serious interview programme something like our CNA interview with an expert, but it was riddled with half-truths just to talk up Singapore so as to bash the things they want to change about HK.

        obviously the TV programme was meant for HK market domestic consumption only, since the average HK citizen wouldn’t have a clue.

        the sad part comes in when a SG citizen who watched the show actually goes to coffeeshop and parrot what the tv show says how good SG is.

      • Deaf Frog's toothpick

        @chris

        “No govt is perfect in this world”

        no problem, i make typos all the time, I try to read it in the best possible meaning, if i can’t, i ignore it.

        no time for Grammar Police on the internet.

      • Chris

        I know exactly what u mean….
        Chuckles…. Just like some idiots talking abt the differences in sg idea of democracy and western idea of democracy.
        Sg is doing well. Until now I still can’t understand these idiots’ issues.

    • True Singapore

      Only fool to believe. It show how inexperienced Christ is to handle and analyse the situation

  19. Deaf Frog's toothpick

    and just in case i get all these BS that i am pro-roy or anti-govt,

    I am the one who said i did not like the way roy conducted himself when he was served the lawyer’s letter.

    I am the one who suggested a minimum sum for the compensation amount for defamation suits, and the sum should be set at either SGD$5million or 2.5% of the net worth of the person who is being defamed.

    i am just stating a few, it’s all on the record, anyone who is interested can check the comment section of roy’s posts, anyone who think I am pro-roy must be stupid. or daft.

    • Chris

      @….toothpick,
      FYI, I will never lick up everything he says. Posting is for ppl for dun want to read all the cpf and other policies in detail.
      I have highlighted this 8 min clip does not fully encompass our healthcare system.
      If ppl r really interested then they should go to our official websites to read. But when reading, take note of both the pros and cons. Why r there cons in policies, is it becos of money? What is govt’s reasons to have these cons? If u have solutions to remove these cons without affecting govt’s concerns, then table ur solutions to govt.
      as long as u dun act like Roy and make false accusation. Instead, u give real logical solutions. U can be sure ppl will listen.
      Also note that govt’s job is also to make sure sg have money in our coffers. When it spend, it must get back from elsewhere… That’s life, accept it.

  20. leslie

    I don’t know what’s there to debate about.
    The verdict is out. CPF system is broke.

    I don’t know why people keep comparing CPF interest with bank interest on saving deposits.
    The verdict is out. CPF is a long-term forced saving plan, you can’t withdraw your money anytime you like. Bank gives low interest rate because you can withdraw your savings anytime.

    I don’t know what is the use of having CPF when all my money is used to purchase a HDB lease.
    The verdict is out. Whether 2.5%, 4% or 10%, I have no money in my CPF account. On top of that, if I sell my flat, I have to top up my CPF based on the accrued interest a hypothetical gain that which the government assume HDB flat value will gain in tandem with CPF.

    I don’t know who is the mother farker who came up with such a devious plan to raid my savings.
    The verdict is out. CPF minimum sum keep growing without my CPF growing. If the actual CPF money did not grow, how am I able to fund my retirement? How does the minimum sum fund my retirement when my CPF money is less than the minimum sum?

    I don’t know why LHL is in the board of GIC.
    The verdict is out. If GIC invest independent of government involvement, why are there so many ministers in the GIC board? How can they say they do not know what GIC is doing? How can they pretend not to know anything yet collect double income? Should Singaporeans allow these people to sit in the board?

    I don’t know why Singapore is in such a sorry state. Why the 60% are so ignorant? If you are a PM or minister, should you also be a banker? If you are a judge, should you also sit in the jury? If you are the examiner, should you also be the candidate? If you are the PM, should CPIB be under your charge? If you are a Singaporean, can you also be an Australian?

    The verdict is out. There is SERIOUS CONFLICT OF INTEREST in our government. But Singaporeans do not seem to care. They trust blindly and vote blindly. There is SERIOUS CONFLICT OF INTEREST. Conflict of interest that can lead to major trust issues.

    What happen to SGX? Is there insider trading?

    • Chris

      @leslie
      Great job.
      Please do not display too much of ur ignorance in public. Even though u r “hidden”, it still doesn’t reflect well on u as a person.
      Go read the official websites or some investment books instead.

      • leslie

        @Chris
        The verdict is out. You are complaining for the sake of complaining. Where is the beef in your “argument”?
        The verdict is out. You are nothing but a PAP supporter bashing me for the sake of bashing.
        The verdict is out. What you have written are just empty rhetorics.
        The verdict is out, you do not know how to respond properly to my points.
        The verdict is out, you are just mouthing what your master told you.

      • Chris

        @leslie
        If u had read my earlier posts. U will know my stance.
        Unfortunately, either u were not here earlier or u did not read. Both r not my problems.

      • Samuel

        @Chris, it is very clear your stance is of extreme prejudice. If both not your problems, then you shouldn’t be replying to people who never comment on your spam posts. So it do seem like you have a problem, don’t you?

      • Chris

        @samuel,
        U really tickle me again.
        Me not wanting to repeat myself again and again is my stance. Why can’t I do that?
        Him not wanting to go bk and read my comments in other of Roy articles is his problem.
        Lastly, I am not the govt. I do not need to explain to ppl again and again on a subject unless I feel like it. Remember, I’m not paid. I give my take on what, when and how to explain my stance. Freedom of speech, enshrined by our govt and ppl like Roy…. So, is there still a problem with me?
        But the govt should communicate things that ppl dun understand as many times as it takes… But if only very few ppl dun understand, they can ask the relevant govt bodies instead. Be situational and practical lah….
        Some times, ppl need to think first too. Right?

    • Deaf Frog's toothpick

      @leelie

      I’ll just touch on your first point, whether a fund is broke of not is irrelevant as long as there are sufficient new immigrant coming in to support the upward trend of prices of housing.

      lets say you take 100k from your mom, say you will invest for her and pay her $500/mth, it does not matter whether you really invest the money or use it to pay for downpayment to get yourself a new car, as long as you have a job and salary, you can use the fresh money coming n to pay your mom the $500. as long as you don’t lose you job and you mom does not want to take back the full sum, you will be fine.

      and you can’t suggest that a fund is broke if you can’t prove it.

      • Chris

        @xxx toothpick,
        Just to add, if I’m the mom. I’ll demand an interest or return for this 100k. How much is what u negotiate with ur mom.
        But for govt context, cpf is not entirely the same and u can’t really negotiate. But govt’s returns must be deem fair. 2.5% and 4% is really not bad.
        Cpf is more like an annuity but by govt’s initiative. Almost every country has this in one form or other. Rules for such cpf or social security fund are subjected to changes and the amount of money u as an individual put in ur such account. It is compulsory to have as long as u work in that country.

        @leslie
        Like I said, dun be ignorant. Read our cpf rules at least and if u have time, read other country’s rules on these cpf or whatever u want to call them. Dun only see the cons of our cpf, also see the pros.
        As long as the pros outweigh the cons, what is the problem then?

      • Chris

        @leslie,
        “Ponzi? If u think it is then ur entire life is living in a Ponzi scheme. My take is, ur company is like a Ponzi too…. Every country u go to is also a Ponzi. Even the school u went to was a Ponzi… ”
        If u truly feel it’s a Ponzi then good luck to u….

      • Deaf Frog's toothpick

        @leslie

        you can’t say something is ponzi unless you can prove it.

        as a side joke, all the toxic junk in the subprime crisis which is worthless now used to be rated triple-A, you can say they are junk now, but if you say they were junk before the crisis, you would be ridiculed or sued, or both.

      • Samuel

        I am sorry, Deaf Frog, you failed miserably at sarcasm. People like Chris only know sarkaing (three-legged tripod) and porlumpa (carry balls).

      • Chris

        @samuel
        I hear …toothpick.
        Wrt these junk bonds on being ridiculed or sued, or both.
        I beg to differ. IMO, if u had said any thing negative on these junk bonds then, u will be riducled by many of ur peers. But to be sued? Highly unlikely, unless u make false accusations on the ppl who issued these junk bond.
        Can I draw u guys back to Roy’s case again? Simple. Right?
        U dun even need much knowledge just conmon sense.

        FYI, due to economic recovery and current economic situations in different countries. similar bonds r resurfacing in the markets but they r repackaged and made clearer according to local govt rulings. Any of u guys interested in buying?
        I assure u that there’ll be ppl buying. As long as these buyers know what they r getting into, why not?

      • choofrfreoer

        Indeed. To have a strong opinion about something hardly equates to having expertise. Somehow, many people fail to realise this, chiefly of whom, is Roy Ngerng.

      • True Singapore

        Bcos Christ is from India and doesn’t serve army. Retired liao will go back to india as well

  21. Deaf Frog's toothpick

    *typo correction

    @leslie

    I’ll just touch on your first point, whether a fund is broke OR not is irrelevant as long as there are sufficient new immigrantS coming in to support the upward trend of prices of housing.

    • Chris

      Ur point on immigrant is neither right nor wrong.
      Immigration is a great way to speed up economic growth and increase the vibrancy of any country’s society if ur immigrants r mostly young or economically productive. Better still, if they r fertile. Any aging country will need such a booster shot.
      Although I am not xenophobic but whenever I see large crowds of ppl I get really stressed. Even if I am in a foreign country, I’ll be thinking to myself “what the fxxk r these ppl doing here”. So, IMO most ppl feels that stress but that doesn’t mean they r against immigrants.
      So in short, my understanding is sg welcomes qualified immigrants needed by our society. as long as our infrastructure is able to sustain everyone in sg – as little stress as possible from huge crowds.
      My point is to add on to @xxxxtoothpick’s point on immigrants, just in case ppl say any thing too negative or positive.

      • Deaf Frog's toothpick

        metaphorically, Immigration is like a type of drug which’s dosage have to be heavier each time it is consumed. how sustainable do you think it is?

        how is this so?

        6.9m population is touted as the “solution” to

        the current “problem” of 5.3m population with TFR at 1.29

        now, there is no reason to believe that at 6.9m the TFR is going to go into reverse, when exposed to the same economic realities and stresses of our high speed hamster wheel system, the new immigrants would assimilate our TFR rate instead of behaving in a counter intuitive manner.

        this 6.9m eventually become grey tsunami in it’s own right, so when that is going to happen, what is the “solution” to 6.9m at TFR 1.29? (or maybe even lower TFR)

        assuming the 30% increase calculated by the govt agency’s experts from 5.3 to 6.9 is correct.

        it logically follows that: 5.3m => 6.9m => 8.97m

        solution is 8.97m population?, perhaps more. how sustainable is this?

        it’s like adding cold water to a boiling pot to bring down the temperature, soon you have even more boiling water which requires adding yet a greater amount of cold water compared to the last time round. then the inconvenient truth of needing to buy a bigger pot to accommodate the water comes around to bring inconvenience to all the water in the pot.

        why go through all the trouble when you can just turn down the gas?

        Scandinavian countries can see infinite loops of immigration is a dead end, thats why they tried and succeeded in bringing their TFR back up to near replacement rate.

        The best solution is to raise our TFR. Importing foreigners is the second best solution. It’s the fish bone you end up chewing when you can’t afford the fish meat.

        why should u pay a large group of ppl 6-digit salary per annum each, just for them to come up with this type of solution?

      • Chris

        @… Toothpick
        I agree that the best way is to increase our TFR. But supplement with the right immigrants r needed as well. If u know how to increase our TFR, the whole sg will thank u.
        Drug? That’s interesting. Maybe… But the pros of our govt is it’s flexible and can change policies to slow immigrants rates if needed. But whether good or bad of high population is dependent on which fence u sit, biz men or normal civilians in general. IMO, as long as infastructure is in placed. There’s more pros to have population just slight below optimized.

    • Deaf Frog's toothpick

      did you know that the overseas Singaporean population has been increasing for 10 years straight?

      at 2013 the overseas population count is 207000, how many do you think are coming back?

      207k figure does not include those who have left permanently, that figure is a secret, why? you know why.

      we have to retain what we have, whats the point if we lose our own talents and bring “talents” in the form of Sun Xu, Anton Casey and beer loving folks who overturn ambulance and police cars.

      • Chris

        @…. Toothpick
        We win some we lose some. Unless they really migrate, we cannot assume they won’t be bk. Such problem of losing Singaporeans due to migrations happens to all countries. As long as Singapore remains attractive to ppl around the world, we r okay. More important is to make sg attractive to Singaporeans. But IMO a lot of times, the reasons why ppl leave sg is not easy to overcome. Things like physical size, agriculture produced, countryside availability, stessed environment becos the country is also a city (no place to “runaway”), etc…

      • Deaf Frog's toothpick

        @ Chris

        i have no problem with “booster” especially those in the construction industry, after they outlive their usefulness, we send them packing, their wages cannot afford retiring in Singapore anyway.

        but what is the point of having chinaman mid-level manager who cannot speak proper english despite having china degree doing a job which our polytechnic grads can do better? i do meet these ppl in real life all the time, except for artificially depressing pay for our ppl where is the value-add to our society?

        the chinaman always have the option of going back and retire comfortably in china even with low pay, but we expect our own ppl who do the same job same pay to service a 5-digit mortgage for a leased roof. they have no where to “go-back” to unless you consider batam and JB as part of Singapore.

      • Chris

        @….toothpick,
        The ICA rules and regulations r there for a reason. If u have an issue with how to fine tuned it then please table which rule is not good.
        One thing no govt can control is if a company is stupid and wants to pay an incapable foreigner and pay him the stipulated salary according to his visa type. If u know there is any wrongdoing then report to mom. They will take action against companies doing anything wrong.
        I am feeling the same thing as u in middle management but it’s also true that in certain jobs u just dun see Singaporeans applying, strange…
        Construction and service industry need foreign workers? Yes and no. Govt is coming down hard on construction companies to upgrade. Why? To use less foreign workers but these companies r not easy to handle, coming up with all sorts of reasons not to upgrade. Do u think they will upgrade if mom allows them their way to import foreign workers?
        High valued jobs may not be able to get experienced locals but it’s important to train locals for such jobs. Govt’s pushing for it and companies r trying to, but training ppl is not overnight. And companies think of all sorts of reasons not to train becos of cost, time and fear of u jumping ship after training.
        With the new national job bank, companies need to adhere to hire locals first. But can this really work like clockwork? I believe it will further prevent companies from hiring foreigners but no rules can really allow a country to reach full local employment before hiring foreigners. Govt must also play by the rules it set and if companies r hiring according to rules, not much to do. But if u know which company is not, please report it. U read that mom will show no mercy to such companies, I’m sure.

  22. Deaf Frog's toothpick

    @Chris

    quote u: “IMO, as long as infastructure is in placed.”

    that used to be what i think. I used to don’t care what they do as long as they can build the infrastructure ahead of demand.

    but can they? can they even be trusted to do so?

    the reality is we had an infrastructure overload for years already and we are still in the midst of fixing it, fixing since last election, still fixing.

    back then it seems that the various ministries are not communicating with each other, there was no budget allocated for public transport expansion or building more HDB for the increased population, it seems that the ministers of these 2 ministries do not even know where the population is going.

    you don’t allocate any funding for them, but you expect them to commit political seppuku when things get messy?

    we are paying a large group of ppl 6-dight salary each per year for this?

    now, panic building, making up for lost time, built at high cost, is this the best way to spend taxpayer’s money?

    now they are digging up the road everywhere haphazardly, cranes, construction everywhere, all these inconveniences for who? for us? or for accommodating the “talents”?

    • Chris

      Planning infastructure is both an art and science. Although no country can proudly say they always plan correctly, I believe sg planning is quite famous in the world arena.
      The best is to plan and build infastructure just below optimal population in order to save cost. But I dun think any country can plan so well.
      Sg is not that bad in comparison.
      Govt may want 6plus million ppl, but it wants does not equates to it will get. Ppl migrant and move for all sorts of reasons. Why should ppl only want to come to sg? And if there is only a certain group of foreigners that govt is interested in. Dun u think other countries r fighting for the same such talents?
      So? Dun u think planning infastructure is both an art and science? Not simple if u think deeper and put ur thinking cap as a govt.

      • Ding hua

        Let’s not think too hard Chris… One bed, one broken stick. You below, I on top 🙂

      • Chua

        Chris, no need to find excuses. The reality is government messed up the immigration vs housing demands. They messed up the COE supply too. Oversupply then realise only years after and creates big issues for correction.

      • Chris

        @chua
        Policies changes r never excuses. Rather policies which dun change and govt gives excuses then big problem.
        Or govt wants to change but cannot change pass through parliament due to ppl like Roy, is also possible.

        Wake up ur idea before u talk about excuses….

    • Chris

      Alas, again we r digressing the topic that Roy had research for years.
      In order to respect Roy, let’s try not to move off topic. Immigration and infastructure are huge topics by themselves. Cpf is a huge topic too. Healthcare is also a huge topic but since govt links some if healthcare into cpf, it is reasonable to talk a bit about healthcare.
      Until now, Roy has not said anything new to back his claims. Everything he said r just “rubbish” IMO.
      I am just a layperson with very limited knowledge of our system, I truly wonder how Roy can stand up to the scrutiny of the ppl in charge of the cpf system.
      But nevertheless, I am both happy and disappointed that Roy continues his fiasco. Becos It may allow ppl to understand our cpf better is a pro. But to allow an idiot like Roy become “famous” by pulling such a stunt is really making me boil with anger. Such a disgrace, and why it must be a Singaporean who doesn’t understand our cpf but tries to make it into an issue when it’s not.

      • Ding hua

        Hi Darling, why you keep saying you are a lay person. Are you trying to be laid? Do u prefer missionary position? I know your stick is broken. In China, it is ok if your stick is broken. People tend to keep a low profile. But I am seeing you in a very high profile. Maybe you want to be laid by not just me but everyone else. So why are you keep running away from me? Can I have your phone number. You can facebook me too, you know. I think Roy has made it clear he is not interested in you Chris. Why you keep pestering him? He is not interested. But I am. Give me a chance to put your stick back. Stop spouting rubbish like a woman spurned. I will be there for you darling. Stop disgracing yourself and give me a call. I will make you feel higher.

    • BBQ Frog

      overload??? get out of your well and see the world. take the tube in london on a friday 6pm and tell me about overloading. Take MTR in hong kong and tell me about body odour. take the bts at 6pm and have a squeeze with the lady boys. How about tokyo and korea????

      Where have you been??? timbuktu? i am sure they plan for it.

      it is always half empty for you. Stop being a arm chair critic, if you are so good why dun you run for politics and made things happen.

      • Deaf Frog's toothpick

        @BBQ Frog

        i can hit you back with any amount of subjectively selected statistic if i wanted to, whats the point?, why take london tube at it’s busiest hour when you you can get 2 cars for the same money you paid 1car in SG and still have spare cash to keep a mistress?

        as we can see, it brings us back to the argument, you are basically saying, if your penis is 1cm at max erection, it’s not that bad, because a hamster is worse.

      • Chris

        @…toothpick,
        He’s just trying to say peak hours all major cities in the world r jam packed.
        I dun think U’ll want to drive and pay for packing within central London… Even if cars r cheap. Petrol not cheap… British petrolumn never get subsidy from uk govt by having the “B” in its name… Let’s not get into comparison of other countries again.

  23. choofrfreoer

    “The Defendant is a person of modest means… Yet the Plaintiff rejected the damages offered… It appeared to the Defendant that the Plaintiff was seeking… to prevent him from expressing his views on the CPF… considerable public interest”

    Here we go again, M. Ravi. Trying to obfuscate the defamation suit again, for public consumption? We all know full well that whether LHL suing Roy Ngerng for “expressing his views on the CPF” or not is irrelevant. The courts aren’t even going to consider this even if it is true.

    The courts are just going to consider on how Roy Ngerng “alleged that LHL is corrupt”. “Expressing views on CPF” and “alleging corruption” is so different. The “considerable public interest” as stated resides in the CPF, not in whether or not LHL is corrupt.

    The court case isn’t about the CPF. It’s about Roy Ngerng alleging LHL is corrupt. Nice try to change the focus, M. Ravi, but our judges are smarter than that. M. Ravi should really stop using this argument, since it will damage his own credibility in court even before the hearing takes place.

    • Chris

      @choo…
      I agree, this case is about defamation and whether Roy’s accusations of PM is true or false.
      Cpf workings will be uncovered along with this case and such uncovering will establish whether cpf, Gic, th, etc r truly linked and whether PM is getting any “kickbacks”.
      After which, whoever is right will be given justice and whoever is wrong will pay the price.
      The issue I have is:
      “if Roy is guilty and proof is laid in front of everyone. Will there be ppl still believe in him and give him donations and such? If so, why? Although no one can stop ppl from donating, but why r u ppl donating to a guilty person? Other than these ppl having ulterior motives, I can think of no other reasons…. IMO, such motives runs deeper than “trust of our system and govt”. It questions the very integrity of such ppl making donations to Roy. “

      • Samuel

        Agreeing for the sake of agreeing. Is that what ball lickers do all time, full time, Mr neuter aka “Layman” Chris?

      • Chris

        @samuel
        I just multi-task, not full time. Else no money…
        But it tickles me to see whoever “oppose” u guys will be termed “balls licker”. How shall I think of u then? Same as well?
        Please, think before u type. I understand that with technology, some ppl can’t type and think at the same time…
        Oh btw, isn’t Roy full time now? Shouldn’t he make some comments here? Or he’s using other monikers like “Samuel” to reply? Just in case he can’t answer the questions or distort the facts…
        What a loser, Roy!

      • Ding hua

        Hi Chris, I like multi-tasking too. Maybe we can share tips on that. Is ball licking your favourite past time? I have balls and they need licking. I hope your tongue is long enough. Stop pestering Roy, he is not interested in you.

    • Xmen

      Chris et al, I am back.

      This defamation suit is clearly political. LHL has a much BIGGER fugitive to catch but he is not going after him. The fugitive is Gopalan Nair who not only defames LHL, his father and his wife, but also scandalizes Singapore judiciary. He openly challenges LHL to sue him in the California court or extradite him. So why is LHL dragging his feet? If you are clueless, LHL will lose his face/pants in the American (or European, Australian, Canadian, Japanese, …) court.

      Yes, Nair was forced to apologize when ***he was in Singapore***… LOL

      • Chris

        @xmen
        To draw ppl away from the point whether Roy has or has not falsely accused PM is a good try.
        Political or non political, the point is whether PM or Roy has a case. If either has a case, does it really matters whether it’s political or not?
        FYI, Roy started this whole fiasco is also political. So, if Roy is a non-politician but created political show by himself and his friends. So, Why can’t PM sue him when he made those accusation?
        In short, Roy started this politically and caused this to happen (also politically). So, who cause this to become political in the first place? Roy or PM? It’s quite common sense…

      • Xmen

        Guys –

        Such defamation lawsuits will go nowhere in most countries. Here is an example for you IB folks. In North Korea, criticizing the Dear Leader can land you in prison. LHL can and should sue Nair, since according to him Nair is damaging his REPUTATION big time. But he will only get his way in countries like Singapore, Syria and North Korea, but not in America, Europe, Australian, UK, Canada, Japan, Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong…

        Sorry you are not going to win this argument unless your man is man enough to sue Nair in America. LOL

      • Xmen

        @NairCow –

        “he stopped going after Nair the moment he stepped on US soil. what a coward.” LOL

      • Chris

        @xmen,
        Defamation cases of such manner is acceptable to sg. I support free speech, I dun support defamation.
        Ppl must be responsible for what they say, write and do. That’s integrity!

      • Xmen

        @Chris,

        You do NOT support free speech. What you wrote is just lip service. In a country that supports free speech, you don’t see such frivolous defamation lawsuits. (I believe LKY filed one such suit in another country and the case was immediately thrown out. And he never tried that again LOL.)

        People are more intelligent than you think, especially when they are literate enough to read what Roy writes. In fact, the freer the speech, the fewer the defamation lawsuits! In the free speech land of America, there is hardly any lawsuit. Don’t believe me? Check it out yourself. (btw, Singapore MSM does not have any free speech according to international standards.)

      • Chris

        @xmen
        Definition of Free speech never mention that it’s okay to defame another human being. Sg should never follow the road of countries who can’t out speak these so called “free speech advocates”.
        Sg is unique, we dun follow others for the sake of being aligned with others. We shall do what is right for sg.
        U can go do a poll and see if Singaporeans like to be defamed in the name of free speech….

      • Chris

        @xmen
        Btw, if u really poll. Dun just poll ur friends. Get a decent and credible sample size. And ask direct questions like “is it correct for ppl to defame others in the name of free speech”; “yes or no”….
        U becoming a joke in Singapore is freedom of expression and that’s allowed by sg….

      • Xmen

        @Chris,

        At some point in time, slavery was “right”. At other point in time, LGBT was “evil” – still is according to Sg laws, Today, defamation is “wrong” in most countries. One day many Singaporeans, mostly younger generation, will come around to the viewpoint that defamation lawsuit is “wrong”.

        Regardless whether it is right or wrong, punishment must be proportionate to “crime”. Some countries use firing squat against corruption; some places cut off hands of thieves; some executes infidel. One small country executes drug mules, imprisons and bankrupts political opponents. Enough said.

        I’m done explaining to you. Please do some research on Wikipedia on free speech if you are clueless. Or go get a day job 😉

      • Xmen

        @Chris wrote – And ask direct questions like “is it correct for ppl to defame others in the name of free speech”; “yes or no”….

        First I shall give an example. There is currently a U.S. congressional investigation into the IRS, the taxing authority, in a potential criminal case that targeted tea-party organizations. The IRS just claimed that it had lost thousands of emails involved in the scandal. Now there is an uproar with many accusing the IRS chief of lying and cover-up.

        If this case were to happen in Singapore (as in the NKF scandal), any accusation of wrongdoing will be answered with a libel lawsuit to “protect” the reputation of accused. Unless you are a detective and have collected enough proof to convict TT Durai criminally, you are going to lose in a libel lawsuit and be forced to apologize, pay for damages – bankruptcy, and lose your job.

        So here is a direct question – Should the people accusing the IRS chief of lying and cover-up be protected by free speech? Or should they all be sued, bankrupted, fired from their jobs because they can’t prove their allegation in court?

        Here is another question – Is the defamation lawsuit being abused by the powerful people to shut up and suppress opposing viewpoints? Is the punishment of bankruptcy and lifelong hardships proportionate to the so-called defamation crime?

        Think long and hard about it. Maybe you will come around to support free speech and oppose repression…

      • Chris

        @xmen
        This is a matter of trust.
        R u saying it’s okay for ppl to defame others in the name of these so-called justice?
        If the law enforcers r not capable to fend off the criminals, r u gg to let worse criminals out to handle these criminals?
        Ur thinking is wrong to the max….

      • Chris

        @xmen
        I’ve thought long and hard. If I’m born in another country, I’ll most prob initiate ur version of free speech that allow defamation. But since I’m Singaporean, I will never agree. Becos our laws r stringent and must be adhere to regardless of rank and class. If u truly have a case, I believe no judge will throw out ur case in sg. Up to now, all these ppl who accused the govt of no free speech in sg are just clowns, IMO. In any society, there’ll be ppl like durai. It’s normal. Which country do u know that doesn’t have ppl corrupted? Sg is ranked very highly as a country with very few corruptions. U think that’s by fluke?
        To release an “evil” like allow ppl to falsely accuse others in their speech is a big NO!
        Lastly, bk to my question.
        “is it correct for ppl to defame others in the name of free speech”; “yes or no”?

      • Xmen

        @Chris,

        Are you the moderator on this blog? Or are you hijacking the blog? You have been busy responding to just about every criticism of your PAP idols.

        “Up to now, all these ppl who accused the govt of no free speech in sg are just clowns, IMO.” There are enough International free speech indexes to prove that you are wrong. You have been brainwashed to believe black is white and vice versa.

        The corruption index has nothing to do with free speech. It’s like claiming that Singapore has no restrictions on free flow of capitals yet it restricts how people money spend their money.

        Durai was as reputable as LHL until he was NOT. Durai also won all the defamation lawsuits although the allegations were later proven right. I grant you that LHL has won all the defamation lawsuits so far….

        I have no doubt that Roy did not set out to defame anyone. So stop using “evil” here, you just showed your hatred and intolerance towards people with different opinions.

        You don’t even recognize that your viewpoint is in the minority (measured against International standards.)

      • True Singapore

        This muther farker Christ is stubborn like a PM. He cannot open up his mind and think it as a ordinary citizen.

  24. Samuel

    Nice try putting a spin, boy. Except that Roy Ngerng did not alleged corruption. It is the PM who alleged Roy Ngerng of alleging corruption. Now, go figure!

  25. Deaf Frog's toothpick

    @ Chris

    all the points are scattered here and there so i’ll just make a reply here.

    on Roy, i don’t really wish to talk abt the case now because it is currently sub judice, i know some ppl online tend to ignore this but lets just say i would like to differentiate myself from these ppl.

    on attracting immigrants, if you position yourself in a way where even your own talents are leaving, obviously you cannot expect to attract the high quality ppl.

    as for the rate of immigration, i think they made some decisions based on some extraordinarily optimistic reasoning when they link bonuses to GDP growth.

    the easiest way to increase GDP is to increase to absolute number of participants in the economy, and the easiest way to increase participants is immigration.

    predictably then if you let some ppl choose, will they push harder to increase TFR of the local population or increase immigration? which is easier for them?

    1. increase TFR, newly born infant require at least 20years before he/she can be deployed in the economy, you want to collect your salary bonus in 20 years time when that happens? that is assuming you still have the job.

    or

    2. immigration, which is immediate, and you collect you salary bonus this year?

    inadvertently or otherwise, immigrants are streaming in like there is no quality control at all and the TFR is no showing much improvement. no prizes for guessing why this is the case.

    and we actually need to pay ppl something like 6-digits/year to do something as simple as immigration with no quality control?

    • Ding hua

      Hi Toothpick, you need immigrants. Singapore got no talent. You need talents like us scholars from China to augment your nation’s labour. You need talents like us to lead your people. If there is no immigration, there would not be a Singapore. Singapore is just a tiny island that won’t make it if not for the extraordinary foresight of LKY to import talents like us from China, India and Philippines. Singaporeans are too lazy to work and need our help to boost its otherwise doomed economy. Think about it. I am right.

      • Deaf Frog's toothpick

        @Ding Hua

        We need real talents that provide real value add to our economy, ppl that come in and make the value of 1+1 greater than 2.

        not ppl who come in and make 1+1=2 or worse 1+1=1.8

    • Ding hua

      I am doing your nation a huge favour by coming here to become one of you. Be proud about that. You people are too lazy to work. Admit it.

      • friday

        Actually, i worked very often with people in China. Many not exactly as hardworking as what chinese claims to be. Furthermore, many of them, their attitude is “amazing”.. likes to give plenty of excuses and explanation instead of getting down to do it. No wonder, Singaporeans are so sought after to manage the operations there. Pale in comparison to chinese in HK and Taiwan where I salute them for their dedication to their profession.

      • Chris

        @friday,
        Foreigners who dun deserve to be given pr or citizens slipping into sg will always be there no matter how ICA maintains the rules. Becos loopholes in any rules r there. We can only hope such ppl r less than the capable ones.
        That’s another reason why sg cannot become a welfare state. No money then good luck to these foreigners turned citizens or pr…

      • Ding hua

        @friday, Chris is saying that sg must not give welfare to Singaporeans. As a China top scholar, I have never spend a cent out of my parents’ pocket for the past 20 years. I am awarded scholarship at Hwa Chong JC and then scholarship at NUS. I do not need to pay a single cent for my accomodation. After I graduated with 2nd upper, I took up the offer to further my studies. Now having graduated with a PHD, I am bonded to a research firm with a secured job. I doubt anyone in China had it so good. God bless PAP government for helping me. I am now a new citizen and will be bringing my parents over. I don’t think Singapore has a good future looking at the current political climate. My next step is to move to Canada. I heard Canada is a welfare state. It will be good and the climate is not so much different from my hometown. I am truly thankful to the PAP government and will be giving my vote to such a caring and generous government. I love PAP. Actually Singapore is like a part of China. There are 1 million of us here. God bless China 🙂

    • Chris

      @….toothpick
      My stance has not changed. TFR needs to be improved. But improvements should not be at the expense of our economy and state coffers. Govt’s calculations I will only accept at face value. Even Scandinavian countries with all the perks are unable to improve their TFR back to the good old days. Let alone us. Singapore has no magic pill too.
      Immigration rate changes as the economy needs also calculated by the govt bodies. These calculations r not without basis. The unfortunate thing is economic needs and immigration rates r never really racing on the same track. But we r not that bad still in forecasting. Recent difficulties in foreign hires r felt throughout most industries. This slow down is not just to appease ppl during ge2011. It’s also to force industries to change gear or get lost. Let new industries to blossom instead. All these must be done delicately but also ensure it does not derail due to unhappy biz men…
      No QC done on immigrations? I dun think so, most of the new immigrants do not come here becos they were unwanted by their own countries, rather they r sought after individuals. I have heard of foreigners whom I thought was good but he’s rejected for citizenship and pr. Of cos, all these r due to tweaks in policies becos of our nimble govt and size of country…
      If u think running the govt is just a walk in the park then please go run for election the next round. Or u r in the running already???
      PM and his team and all the MPs r forming policies to set the path and vision. The ministries and stat board and other govt entities does the leg work. Of cos, with the minister calling the shots in their respective ministry. It’s a team effort, not just the ministers’ effort.
      This million dollar salaried minister talk again. Sigh .. If u truly r a smart guy who already draw a high salary. Do u want to join pap for their salary? Think before u answer. Some cons to consider: other than sleeping, most times r spent in community works, minister works, overseas, meetings, crisis management, scrutiny by public eyes who may be reasonable or unreasonable, declaration of wealth, cpib and security branches intervention if u do investments, etc…
      I assume u to be a man of the same caliber as PM and team, do u want to do all these? Or u want to live a comfortable, relax life. Only work, play and enjoy with ur love ones without idiots like Roy to knock on ur door every other day..
      Of cos, there’s the pro if u r truly minister calibre. U get bodyguards, ur family is protect (may not be a good thing), ur name is in parliament, u meet head of states, etc..
      Maybe u will like it but does ur love ones like this as well? Sounds good when u r not in the position but r u sure?

      • Ding hua

        Hi Chris, running a government is too difficult for Singaporeans. You need talents like us people from China to help you run. You Singaporeans are too lazy to work and cannot think far. I can help run this small country. My father runs a county 10 times bigger. If he can do it, I am sure I can run small small Singapore. How do I become a minister? Do I need to be an MP?

      • True Singapore

        Ding Hua, have u put ur China Dick into Christ, she is still talking so much rubbish.

    • Peter

      Education for some readers/posters:
      Ministers’ GDP bonus was replaced in 2012 with a national bonus based on four equal parts:
      1) The real median income growth rate (the growth rate after taking inflation into account)
      2) The real growth rate of the incomes of the lowest 20th percentile earners
      3) The unemployment rate (the lower the better)
      4) The real GDP growth rate (so GDP growth is only a quarter of the mix now)

      This new bonus system was specifically designed in response to the electorate’s calls for less immigration and for a more inclusive Singapore, etc. It has helped move Singapore ministers away from a “GDP growth at any cost is still good” mentality. Now, there is greater focus on the middle and lower income earners and keeping unemployment low by gradually making it harder for employers to just bring in foreign workers, raising cleaners’ and security guards’ pay, etc. I think most people can see this shift and I believe it will continue into the future – not because Singapore ministers suddenly grew extra compassion glands but because it is in their financial interest that this happens and they have proven themselves to be very good at setting and meeting goals.

      • Deaf Frog's toothpick

        @Peter
        the fact is it’s still around. GPD bonus’s payout under the new framework in 2012 was 100%, the new framework was adopted in 2011.

        In the past GDP bonus(up to a mind boggling 8mths payout) was one of the 3 bonuses, on top of a already considerable 7-digit pay
        +13th mth bonus (NPPA)
        + special allowance(SA) 1mth
        + public service leadership allowance 2mths (PSLA)
        + drawing pension at the same time for some ppl above 55yo
        + 2 other bonuses, annual variable component (AVC) and performance bonus.

        now GDP bonus is one of the four components of National bonus, on top of a already considerable 7-digit pay.
        + 2 other bonuses, annual variable component (AVC) and performance bonus.
        +13th mth bonus (NPPA)
        +CPF

      • Peter

        @ toothpick
        GDP bonus is still around but it is only 1/4 of the main bonus. 3/4 of that bonus is for improving income of the low paid, improving middle income, and maintaining low unemployment. Running a government is a balancing act of trying to satisfy everybody (not actually possible). GDP growth is still considered a good thing (as it should be) – but only if lower and middle income earners benefit from it. This is a major shift from pre the 2011 elections.

  26. Ding hua

    Hi Chris, you are very free. I am also very free. I think you should talk to me instead of pestering Roy. They got more important things to do, you know? I can do my research and surf the web. I am good at multi-tasking just like you. Oh, and I am not paid too 🙂

  27. Deaf Frog's toothpick

    quote: “Even Scandinavian countries with all the perks are unable to improve their TFR back to the good old days.”

    you are right, but there is a difference between

    1. setting the goal of improving TFR as a main goal and immigration as a supplement &

    2. having immigration as the main driving force and taking improving TFR as a bonus.

    if we arguing over QC, we will end up arguing over the definition of Q and subjective experiences, the audience will decide for themselves whether the QC is enough or not based on their own experience in real life encounters.

    in case you are mistaken, i have no quarrel over the absolute value of a salary of a politician, they can pay themselves any value they want to as long as they can deliver the performance which is commensurate with the amount they demand.

    in fact i am not happy when they revise their salary downwards, i think it’s a show of lack of ambition to do better. I am prepared to pay them twice their current salary if they can solve the TFR problem and ensure than CPF returns beat inflation. I am generous with paying top dollar for top performance, but i want to see real top performance, not ppl coming out and talk abt the past glories of their predecessors and how it is going to get better in 20years time.

    Do i want to join pap for their salary? Are you suggesting that if a political party have problems attracting talented ppl (i am not a the type of talented ppl they are looking for btw) due to all the long list of disadvantages and chores you have cited, the solution is to use taxpayers’s money to bump up the salary so that the job is more palatable?

    • Chris

      @… Toothpick
      Paying good salary will only allow calibre and high integrity ppl to stay on public service. It’ll never attract a long q of such ppl. It’s rather a passion to serve sg and if we r lucky these ppl r also highly calibre and far sighted individuals with integrity. Such r the ppl who will eventually become minister grade. Such ppl r not easy to find becos:
      – smart ppl r many but not all have high integrity.
      – not all ppl with such quality r willing to serve.
      – not all ppl with such quality agrees with pap or opposites. They may think both r idiots since such ppl r smart in their own rights. AlSo they do not like to have the party’s whip upon them. But I urge such ppl to serve in their own capacity.
      There r other reason like family commitment and such prevent good ppl to put their hands up.

      Lastly, the unfortunate thing is that ppl like Roy who has no quality but r willing to serve. Such ppl r many as well. Such is the irony of life….

    • Chris

      @… Toothpick
      With ur TFR thing. I choose no 1 becos that’s the long term way to go.
      Govt has thrown in a lot of money in it, although results r encouraging but everyone agrees it’s not gg to become 2.1 again…
      Gg down some Scandinavian country’s road like paying the new mothers a huge percentage of their 1 year salary (last drawn pay)? This may bring TFR up further but the amount of money will become enormous. Note that today’s women may earn a lot more compared to the past. Also, the rest of the current perks may cease and diverted to fund this initiative… Can sg afford to pay such huge “muscles” down this road in the long road? What is the kpi then? TFR bk to >=2.1?
      Any better ideas than this???
      PM will give u sg highest public award if u can come up with one idea that stands up to parliament and cabinet scrutiny. I’m sure of that…

      • dddx

        Hi,

        Note sure what you mean by Gov. has thrown money at it, in relation to trying to solve the TFR. All i see, or have seen, is them implementing less potent policies like offering cash grants for having more babies, and a silly slap on leave system that doesn’t really help new parents to juggle the demands of paying your house, car, living expenses, and meeting one’s career advancements.

        Please, the problem is so striking, the white elephant, so glaring. Our society is still deeply conservative (regardless of the pick dot etc., we still cannot accept the concept of children born out of wedlock, and our youth still look to marriage and children as a source of one’s achievements in life) in comparison to our Scandinavian peers, so the problem of women not willing to settle due to their careers is not as pertinent to Singapore. Rather, a significant part of the declining TFR should be attributed to the high cost of living, and the hamster wheel like work culture we have. This is structural, and it is deeply entrenched in our system; trying to mass import foreign talent, is not going to solve it, but merely plaster its facade. I think Dead Frog’s Toothpick has succinctly explained already. In fact, we may even be introducing a greater number of variables, and exposing ourselves to a greater number of risks by implementing a solution that doesn’t address the root cause.

      • dddx

        And lastly, face it. The PAP doesn’t give two craps about your and anyone’s ideas if he/she doesn’t have the credentials AND the political or societal standing to prove it. Sure, you want to feedback or suggest, please approach your MP. Why do you think there is such a big backlash today? Hell, in the industry I work in, you better know someone big in the gov to push any thing forward, even if its the brightest, most brilliant idea in the world that will help Sg in its strategic plans.

      • Chris

        @dddx,
        I assume u r one of those who dun want to work and wait for others to work and pay taxes to fund ur cars, milk powder, etc… Rest assure, that’s not gg happen.
        Btw, r u even Singaporean? If u r, then please dun disgrace the rest of Singapore. Being lazy is one thing, to have the cheek to ask ppl to subsidize ur lifestyle is the lowest of low.
        Even the beggars in Europe bothered to sit by the roadside to beg.
        I rest my case for u… Have fun dreaming…

      • dddx

        @Chris

        Lol. Looks like I read you wrong; you are more stupid than I thought. And also, poor attempt at painting a picture of me, but I guess that happens with people with sub-par mental faculties?

        Well, to complete your picture: Yes, I am Singaporean; Yes, I am working, and in a pretty lucrative industry I must say, so no, I actually don’t mind working; no, I am not poor, in fact I fall comfortably in the upper middle class; and no, I am not married, nor do I have children. Also, by the contents of your reply, the structure of your sentence, and your grammatical inconsistencies, I am most probably more educated than you are.

        Anyway, in hopes that I can perhaps enlighten you just a tiny weeny bit for the better of our society (and hopefully, your life): in no place did i ever insinuate that the government should subsidise Singaporeans for their lives. Yes, I mentioned cost of living and the crazy work culture we have here; but to deal with those does not require the government banking on awarding the subsidies and grants to support Singaporeans. In fact, I even hinted about their fallacy in relation to the cash grants for more babies, which you probably failed to catch. Of course, there are other solutions, such as a bottoms-up change in work culture, prudent policies to target the improvements of the basic essentials of housing, jobs, healthcare etc., modification of our educational values and goals. We could continue, but a simpleton like you wouldn’t understand anyway, plus I have no compulsion to debate with folks such as yourself.

        please leave the serious discussion about serious matters to the more capable, people such as your good self are more suited for ranting and raving of mad men.

      • Ding hua

        @dddx, I agree with you. Chris is only suitable for ranting and sucking. He keep pestering Roy due to inferiority complex as Chris can never get anyone to pay him $1000, let alone $100,000 donation. That’s why I am offering Chris a free session with me on top and him below. I know his stick is broken, but I am willing to accept inferior goods, broken is ok. No choice, he only has me who is on par with his sexual fantasy.

      • Chris

        @dddx
        Great job! Now u have a fan.
        There is a difference between complaining, ranting and explaining.
        True. The govt is not perfect, I’ve said many times. And I also explained that the govt amends policies every time it feels things r working out as thought.
        Since u r in a lucrative industry and maybe in the upper middle class of society. Can’t u understand?
        Sigh…
        If u truly experience issues and have real solutions for such issues then why dun u join a party to voice out during elections?
        Note that, most ppl thinks they have solutions to problems facing sg but such solutions also brings other problems to sg. Most solutions r taken after weighing pros and cons…
        So, r u part of ur company’s executive management team giving day to day and long term vision of ur company’s future? I assume ur company is really fortunate since u seem to have solutions for all problems without any cons….

      • dddx

        @Chris

        lol ok Chris, good attempt at trying to utilise sarcasm to cover up your own deficiencies. Also stop being so defensive regarding your beloved PAP, it’s not like they care about what you lowly educated, and probably unsuccessful people think.

        Of course there’s a difference; however you seem to be doing the ranting most of the time. Your best attempt at an argument is either 1) utilising ad hominem attacks on the speaker, or 2) establishing a sweeping statement as truth, and then reverting back to 1). Eh, why, never take GP before is it? Never learnt how to construct arguments in secondary school is it?

        Yea I am from upper middle class, and work in a lucrative industry, so? In fact the government policies do not affect myself or my parents as much since we are readily able to afford the high cost of living in Singapore, plus we enjoy very much the fruits of our labour that Singapore can provide. However it’s my observation that said policies have taken the alarming trend of deviating their focus away from the man on the street, or your average Singaporean. This is why we had such high public housing and healthcare prices, insufficient infrastructure, and the societal frictions we see today. Don’t be naive, it’s clear as day that before the recent corrections taken, the management of these basic essentials were not up to standard. In the famous words of LHL, let’s call a spade, a spade. The questions now are whether the bungle is restricted to just these areas, or are there anymore red flags that need to be raised; if so, is there anything being done to resolve them.

        Join party for what? I merely made an observation stating areas of incompetence the gov can improve on. I also make observations before on the Iraq war and the inefficiencies the UN security council possess. Oh, so I should join the UN like that lah?

        The basic tenet of risk management is being able to spot the known-unknowns and the unknown-unknowns, and putting in place measures to mitigate them should they happen. Unfortunately, the basic design, inertia and inherent of most large organisations, creates the top-down management approach of I say, you just do. Historically, and even recently, the gov. has also shown that it is not interested in what its major stakeholders (ie, the average Singaporean) thinks and feels, rather doing what it thinks is the best action for said stakeholders. Add it all up, you have a potential disconnect to where policies should address, and the ability to red flag the probable unintended consequences involved. Which bounces us back to the main topic of the foreign talent influx, and whether it really is an appropriate solution to solving our lowering TFR.

        Of course not, but that shouldn’t hold anyone back (including you), from making one’s observation and surmising an appropriate conclusion from the facts gleaned.

      • Chris

        @dddx
        Lol… Well poor attempt or good attempt. What I’ve said is how I felt. Whether u r upper class, middle class, lower class, one does not discourse from the truth.
        Talking abt risk management, everybody talks abt risk management. But what’s risk management? It’s to highlight all available risks, opportunities, pros, cons of any project or system being rolled out. Since I assume u r someone with experience doing projects or such, how’s ur risk management experience then? R all ur projects successful since U HAVE OBSERVED EVERYTHING? And did u mitigate all ur risks? Or did u turn all ur risks into opportunities?
        Wow. U must be highly sought after… No sarcasm intended. I have no issue having more Singaporeans holding high level jobs in world class MNC… It’s a good thing.
        From any system and project standpoint, there will always be issues and problems no matter who rolls it out. But of cos, how detailed and complete u do ur RM will determine the probability of none failure. But honestly, I’ve not heard of any projects which r completed with zero risk. All projects which proclaim this, r just doing pr for their company and shareholders. So Did the govt do such a bad job? I dun think so. U r free to think what u want though….
        Like u said, u r an observer. It’s all to easy to criticize and make sarcastic remarks after or before…. I see u having a very easy part time job commenting…. 🙂

      • Chris

        Btw dddx
        Glad that a high class Singaporean like u, care for ppl like me. I take public transport everyday. I am also affected directly from any govt policy because I am just a man in the street…
        GP? I dun know that this blog only welcome ppl from JCs? So poly not allowed? My grammar is never good lah, high class ppl like u dun understand ppl like me is normal. Do u think that’s important?
        Oh yah, Roy grad from nus so there’s a minimum education before one can type and comment here? I didn’t see that rule. Maybe u should tell him to be more explicit on “who can make comments here”…
        Lastly, I wish there r more ppl like urself who cares abt us common folks. So, my guess is that u take the mrt some times to “observe” how ppl like me “struggle” daily. Right? Must be hard on u lah. Thank you leh! But no need lah! Common folks like me r not even aware that there r ppl like urself doing that for us. Maybe u should set up another food kitchen like willing hearts. That’s more practical… 🙂

      • Chris

        @dddx
        Just to ask u an Ang moh sentence u write:
        “why, never take GP before is it?”
        Correct or not?
        Or Should it be wriiten as such:
        “Why? Have u never taken GP before?”
        So, which is written correctly?
        My grammar not good so I asking u. Since u seem to be of a high calibre so Ang moh must be tok kong Sia.

    • Chris

      Hi
      Roy bankrupt will not help because ppl like him r opportunist, like parasites.
      The sane, practical Singaporeans must continue to guard ourselves against such ppl like Roy….

  28. Baca Chua

    Hi Roy. Hope things is well with you. Just a bit concern as there is no update from you these few days. Thanks for being the Voice for the Singaporean. Not many have your gut to do so. My utmost respect to you. Regards.

    Sent from my Iphone

    • Chris

      I’m sure he’s lurking around here. Who knows? Maybe he is commenting using other monikers…
      Dun worry. Just hope he dun run away before the trial.

  29. Deaf Frog's toothpick

    @Chris
    anyone is entitled to make comments and influence other voters with their point of view, if a person can carry the ground he/she wins in the marketplace of ideas, that is the basic principle of democracy, to suggest that anyone would need to do anything MORE (like running for elections) in order to be entitled to make comments is a contradiction to the basic principles of democracy.

    ;
    salary have to be measured against performance.

    when performance does not measure up, pay is revised downwards.
    ;

    weighing pros and cons are about making tradeoffs.

    tradeoffs would have to be measured against their outcomes.

    when the outcomes are bad, that means the wrong tradeoffs were made.

    and if the outcomes were good, why is the salary revised downwards?

  30. Deaf Frog's toothpick

    @Chris
    and i think you should stop encouraging(challenging) ppl to put forth their suggestions to those you support, since they think they are so good and have so many things to say.

    i think it reveals a disconnect between:

    1. the values of the ppl you support
    &
    2. the values you would like them to have

    lets examine the evidence,

    look how ppl like Ngiam Tong Dow and Lim Chong Yah were treated when they offered their suggestions, lets be reminded that they are not even opposition politicians.

    imo, ppl like NMP Laurence Lien made some very good speeches in parliament, i think he was mostly given the silent treatment, which happens to many others like him outside parliament.

    and from the words of the Honourable Minister Mr Lim Swee Say himself: “We are like the little frog. We are deaf to all these criticisms” (the now famous deaf frog speech, you can check it out in the Hansard)

    from this, i think it’s not far fetched to say that criticisms are probably not something they look forward to.

    how is someone going to make any suggestion to improve without being able to criticise?

    are you saying that if a Shark explicitly tells you it would gratefully prefer not to have vegetables for dinner, and you still want to be an idiot and offer it cabbage soup?

    • Chris

      @… Toothpick
      I have great respect for all the pioneer and past batches of leaders. They have every right to comment and give their ideas. Their names be passed down in the govt bodies’ histories that they had helmed…
      I used to think our current leaders didn’t listen to their predecessors too. But when I think deeper, I felt otherwise.
      One thing to note is, there is a new batch of leaders at helm and it is time for these new leaders to perform their job. These past leaders had a hand in choosing the current leaders, there’s a reason for them to reccommend these current leaders. Have some faith in them.
      No one is stopping ppl like Mr Ngiam to speak, comment or advice. But if the current leaders is only doing their work according the comments of their predecessor to perform their job, is that right?
      Look at urself then. If u r senior person in ur workplace, would u do ur work according to what ur retired ex-boss says now? I dun think so Loh. But of cos, u can and may ask him out for tea and get his advise if needed (outside work-doesn’t mean u take his advise wholly). That does not mean u dun respect him.
      Maybe there is some sort of disconnect on the ground with a segment of Singaporeans. However, is it becos these ppl never read the policy in depth enough or is it becos they r just looking for an opportunity to make an issue out of “nothing”. So is this disconnect real or conjured out by ppl like Roy?
      Ppl like Roy exists in the past as well and I don’t think they’ll go away in the future. Just that the past leaders were more “strict” than current leaders.
      There r lots of policies’ details that I dun agree with pap. But on the whole they did do pretty well.
      Is it correct to magnify issues that r not really issue in the first place?
      Example is the old lady in the cpf dialogue. She is really not having issue withdrawing her cpf (most probably, in excess of her MS) but the problem is more like she had miscommunication with cpf board on her request. May I ask, who put her video up and magnify this? Turning a non-issue into an issue. Of cos, someone here may comment that if not for this video, she’ll still not get her answer. True, becos she would continue to think cpf is “cheating” her money. Ironic, right?
      Maybe cpf board should send registered mails to all >55 ppl. Then invite these ppl to cpf board for dialogues on a weekly basis…. Lol

      End of the day, my stand doesn’t change. It’s wrong to allow irresponsible ppl who use free speech to avoid their wrong doings.

  31. Chris

    Just to add. I am not “challenging” anyone here. And I have no wish to offend anyone here.
    Since it’s a topic close to me as normal Singaporean. I felt the need to speak my mind.
    🙂

    • True Singapore

      Crap, the way u comment doesn’t sound like you are Singaporean. If you are perhaps your pay is so much above than the average so you can come and talk shit.

      • Chris

        @true Singapore
        If u truly understand what the cpf is about. U seem to not understand though….
        My take works for both rich or poor. And It’s more critical that the poor continue to have cpf and get monthly payout, then govt top up the rest.

      • True Singapore

        If u truly understand what an average Singaporean goes through, you wouldn’t say all these crap.

      • Chris

        Omg
        Just becos ur moniker is as such makes u a true Singaporean?
        Dun disgrace sg lah… Schooling is compulsory up to primary 6. But moe cannot cane or jail or fine ppl if they insist not to send their childen to school.
        So, r u educated or not?

      • True Singapore

        omg
        Pls dun disgrace urself also.
        The way u speak is like elite with full of shit. Use butt to think is just exploit.

    • Francis

      chris…the moment u have differing opinion, u already offend many people leow..so u must agree with them, even if they are crap. only if u speak against the govt, u will be treated as buddies. otherwise u are a dog .

      • Chris

        @francis,
        Lol….
        So much for their version of “freedom of speech”…
        I’ve said my piece and will continue to… My traditional form of “responsible freedom of speech”.

  32. True Singapore

    Thanks Roy for putting up a brave fight.
    Nothing is forever, a new garment need to be changed for good benefit of Citizen. I think Opposition should deserved to be given a change to manage or mismanage. For example I believed LTK can become a MOM and Chen Sow Mao can become a Finance Minister instead of Tana Garam

    • Admit it ...

      One is a chinese-educated uncle , the other is from Taiwan. You can dream and speculate all you want, but are they willing and ready to become full ministers and do you think they can do a better job than PAP?
      Of course – that’s probably what all you myopic retards think. Those who complain too much will never be happy even if this chinese and Taiwan uncles come into power. You will have something new to complain about for sure.

      • Deaf Frog's toothpick

        @Admit it

        no party lasts forever, it’s a choice between buying insurance and being a sitting duck.

        an insurance might not be perfect at first, but this type of insurance can be gradually improved over time, if you don’t start, there will be nothing to improve on.

        an employer with foresight will groom alternatives to his best employee, when the inevitable happens, one of the alternatives can take over. the added advantage is this best employee will perform better due to the competition.

        a myopic employer will have irrational blind faith with his best employee, and will start to panic when this employee turns rogue then he’ll find that the only candidate left to take over is the lazer printer.

      • Deaf Frog's toothpick

        @ Admit it
        lets be reminded that the sedition act explicitly prohibits promotion of feelings of ill-will and hostility between different races or classes of the population of Singapore.

        i fully support and agree with the principles of the sedition act.

        you should be very carefully with words like “taiwan” & “chinese”, i hope you clarify your position.

      • Admit it ...

        You mean he’s not from Taiwan, you mean LTK is not chinese educated?
        I am just telling the truth. There is much xenophobia against foreigners and immigrants but when an opposition member is a foreigner, no problem with some hypocrites.

      • Deaf Frog's toothpick

        @ Admit it,

        let me quote you: “Those who complain too much will never be happy even if this chinese and Taiwan uncles come into power.”

        this is the specific sentence i am responding to.

        “Chinese educated” can be a fact, but it is different from “chinese uncle come into power”, chinese is a race.

        taiwan born is a fact, but it is different from “taiwan uncle come into power”, in this context taiwan is a nationality as in “Taiwanese”.

        your statement is wrong since Chen Show Mao has Singaporean citizenship, to suggest that a “taiwanese come into power” is false.

      • True Singapore

        I am so bcos I dun understand before they are given a chance to perform themselves, you already put a verdict that they are no able to perform, so do Vivian and Tuck Y able to perform??? Given that the party had given that post such a long time.

      • Admit it ...

        In the last GE, both Sylvia Lim & LTK admitted themself that they are NOT ready to form a government. If you still think they can do better than PAP, Vivian or Tuck Yew, do keep supporting them and “try” them by all means. They are probably only comfortable sitting in parliament and drawing 16K per month.

        And I didn’t know calling them “uncles” is derogatory. But I guess there’s nothing wrong with calling PAP supporters “dogs”, “pigs” or “cockroaches”, right ??

        Show respect if you want respect !!!

  33. neutral

    Amusing, you fans, trolls and drones can squabble all you want. There are much greater powers at play here which none of you have any power to even fathom let alone change. Just sit back, grab some popcorn and enjoy the show ‘Singapore’ I think the ending will be interesting 😉

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