How Much Interest Must Singaporeans Earn On Our CPF To Be Able To Meet The CPF Minimum Sum?

Singaporeans need to set aside a CPF Minimum Sum of $155,000 inside our CPF before we are able to withdraw any access monies out to use. If we don’t have this Minimum Sum, our CPF monies will be trapped inside and we cannot withdraw our monies.

By now, we know that nearly 90% of Singaporeans cannot even meet the CPF Minimum Sum today, and half of Singaporeans do not even have $55,000 inside our CPF, which means half of Singaporeans have less than 35% of the CPF Minimum Sum!

The question I had asked previously is why the government keeps increasing the CPF Minimum Sum since the mid-1990s, knowing that most Singaporeans will simply not have enough inside our CPF to meet the CPF Minimum Sum? Why does the government want to lock our CPF up?

CPF Minimum Sum Grows Faster Than the CPF Itself@Facebook

So, another question we need to ask is – how much interest do Singaporeans need to earn on our CPF so that we would be able to meet the CPF Minimum Sum?

Singaporeans Have to Meet a Combined CPF and Medisave Minimum Sum of $198,500 Today before We Can Withdraw Our CPF Monies!

However, before we go on further in the discussion, Leong Sze Hian has discovered that since 2013, on top of the CPF Minimum Sum, Singaporeans would also need to be an additional Medisave Minimum Sum of $43,500 (this year) before we are able to withdraw our CPF monies.

In short, for someone who reaches 55 this year, he/she would need to have at least $198,500 in his/her CPF before any excess CPF monies can be withdrawn. This means that half of Singaporeans won’t even have a quarter of the combined Minimum Sums in our CPF!

Slide1

How Much Combined Minimum Sums Would Singaporeans Need to Meet in 30 Years’ Time?

So, for a 25-year old Singaporean who starts work today, and works for another 30 years before he/she reaches 55, how much would the CPF and Medisave Minimum Sum be in 2044?

At the rate that the CPF and Medisave Minimum Sums are growing, they would have grown to $365,000 and $133,500 in 2044 respectively (and this is a low estimate). This means that for a 25-year old Singaporean today, we would need to set aside a total of $498,000 inside our CPF in 2044, in order to be able to withdraw any excess CPF monies out.

Slide2

How Much Would the Combined Minimum Sums Be, Including for Spending for Housing Loans?

But let’s not forget, if you use your CPF to pay for housing loans, this would eat into your CPF and cause you to save lesser inside your CPF.

So, in order to calculate how much you would need to actually have inside your CPF to have enough to pay for housing loans, and still be able to meet the withdrawal needs, you would also need to factor in how much extra you need to pay for the housing loans, on top of the CPF and Medisave Minimum Sums.

As I had written before, if a Singaporean couple “buys” a $300,000 flat today, they would have to spend about $400,000 in total, including for housing mortgage. If the housing mortgage is split equally, each person would need to pay $200,000 from their CPF.

Thus on top of the $498,000 Combined Minimum Sums, a person should have an additional $200,000, or be able to save at least a total of $698,000 to be able to retire in Singapore!

Slide3

Singaporeans Need to Earn 6% on Our CPF to Be Able to Meet the Minimum Amount

So, if this is the case, for a 25-year old Singaporean today, how much interest should we be able to earn on our CPF to ensure that we are able to meet the minimum amount of $698,000 to be able to retire?

If we look at a low-income earner who earns $1,200 today, assuming that his/her salary increases by 4% every year, he/she would need to earn an interest of 6% on the CPF every year in order for he/she to be able to meet this minimum amount of $698,000!

Slide4

But this is if a person continues to see a 4% increase in salary every year and never loses his/her job. However, we know that this is quite impossible, since for a low-income worker, after he/she reaches the age of 40, his/her wage then starts to decline, which means that there is negative wage growth!

photo 4 (16)

As such, you can imagine that for a low-income worker, he/she would need to earn a much higher CPF interest rate to be able to save $698,000! He/she might even need to earn 7% or 8% at the very least!

Today, the starting wages on the government’s Progressive Wage Model starts at $1,000, which means that a low-income Singaporean who faces wage-decline from age 40 would need to earn at least a 7% or 8% on our CPF!

But how much is the CPF interest rates now? Singaporeans are only earning 2.5% to 4% on our CPF, and an additional 1% on the first $60,000. According to Leong Sze Hian, Singaporeans earn an average of about 3% on our CPF. This is far lower than the 7% or 8% necessary for a low-income Singaporean to be able to save enough to retire on!

Slide5

Singaporeans Should Earn $2,000 to Be Able to Meet the Minimum Amount on the Current 3% CPF Interest?

But based on the current CPF interest rate of an average of 3%, how much salary would a person need to earn in order to save a minimum of $698,000 inside the CPF?

If you look at the optimal scenario of a 4% wage increase every year, a person would need to earn at least $1,893, or at about $1,900!

Slide6

Today, nearly 20% of Singaporeans don’t even earn $1,900 – which means that at least 30% of Singaporeans will not be able to save enough to retire!

But again, this is assuming the perfect scenario of a wage increase of 4% every year, without job losses, but this is very unlikely.

Singaporeans Might Need to Earn As Much As $2,500 or $3,000 to Be Able to Retire in Singapore! 50% of Singaporeans Might Not Be Able to Retire.

So, if we do factor in wage and job losses, a person might need to earn as much as $2,500 or even $3,000 to be able to save enough to retire!

If the minimum needed is $2,500, this would mean that 40% of Singaporeans today will never be able to save enough to retire.

And if Singaporeans need to earn a minimum of $3,000, then 50% of Singaporeans today will never be able to save enough to retire!

Now, if you include other factors, such as if someone decides to sell his/her apartment to buy another one for at least once or twice, then this means that even more Singaporeans wouldn’t be able to save enough to retire! Perhaps now we can understand why as many as 90% of Singaporeans cannot meet the Combined Minimum Sums today and cannot retire!

Now, $2,500 and $3,000 isn’t a far-fetched amount that Singaporeans should earn. If we look at countries which have a similar cost of living to Singapore today, Tokyo has a minimum wage of $2,000, Australia has a minimum wage of $3,000 and low-income workers in Norway earn $5,000.

So, in fact, it is Singaporeans who are being shortchanged by our government, where the starting pay for workers is as low as $1,000 today, and 30% of Singaporeans earn lesser than $2,000!

Slide7

The Singapore Government Has to Return the 6% Earned at GIC Back to Singaporeans

In any case, if we follow the optimal scenario, is it a pipe dream for Singaporeans to earn a CPF interest rate of 6%? Remember, earlier we said that for a low-income worker who sees a wage growth of 4% every year and stays on the job for 30 years, he/she would be able to meet the minimum amount of $698,000 at a 6% interest rate of the CPF.

But actually, 6% should be what Singaporeans should be getting on our CPF today (but which we are not getting).

It has now been exposed that our CPF is invested in the GIC. After numerous denials by the government (by Lee Kuan Yew in 20o1 and 2006 and by Ng Eng Hen in 2007), the government finally admits the truth that our CPF is invested in the GIC in June this year. We now know too that our CPF makes up the bulk of the GIC’s assets, which means that the GIC is in fact akin to our CPF.

Screenshot (45)

In 1999, Prof Mukul Asher had criticised the CPF interest rates by saying that, “there is “no economic rationale” to pay a one-year fixed deposit rate on what is essentially a 35-year or more (the duration of one’s working life) savings plan”.

Indeed, it is thus important to know what is the GIC’s interest rates since its inception in 1981, so that Singaporeans will be able to know how much our CPF should actually be earning. It has been 33 years now.

However, the government has refused to reveal this information.

Even so, we are able to triangulate this information from some of the information that has been revealed in the past. In 2006, then-Minister Mentor and the Chairman of GIC revealed that the GIC’s annual returns averaged “8.2 percent in Singapore dollar (SGD) terms in the 25 years ended March 2006” since its inception.

Deputy Prime Minister and Finance Minister Tharman had also revealed that, “Over the last 5 years (from 2014), (GIC) earned 0.5% in SGD terms, over the last 10 years it earned 5% in SGD terms, over the last 20 years it earned 5% in SGD terms.”

GIC also reported that, “The GIC Portfolio’s 20-year annualised real rate of return for the year ended 31 March 2014 was 4.1%, compared to 4.0% for the previous year. In USD nominal terms, the GIC Portfolio generated an annualised return of 6.5% over the same 20 years.”

So roughly, the GIC might have earned about 6% to 6.5% in interest since inception.

If so, 6% to 6.5% should be what Singaporeans should be earning on our CPF.

Slide8

The Government Should Increase CPF Interest Rates to At Least 6% and/or Set a Minimum Wage of $2,000

Thus for a low-income earner in an optimal scenario, a 6% CPF interest rate is highly viable.

But of course, to ensure that all Singaporeans are able to adequately retire, this would also mean putting other measures in place, such as by implementing a minimum wage and by securing the job prospects of Singaporeans.

So, for the purpose of this article, what we can establish is that Singaporeans should earn a 6% on our CPF in order to be able to meet the Combined Minimum Sums 30 years down the road, and spending for the housing loans (for one flat).

And if the government does not want to increase the CPF interest rates, then it would need to implement a minimum wage of possibly at least $2,000 (as had been shown above), or do a combination of both. And remember, this is if there is an optimal scenario. Otherwise, wages and CPF interest rates would need to be even higher, or other measures would need to be implemented as well.

Slide9

Evidently, the current wages that Singaporeans are being paid and CPF interest rates are severely inadequate to allow Singaporeans to save on. To have 30% of Singaporeans earn less than $2,000 is honestly quite embarrassing and a mistreatment of Singaporeans, for a country that has grown to become the most expensive place to live in, in the world.

The government needs some integrity here. It is absolute nonsense for the government to pay themselves the highest salaries in the world, but expect Singaporeans to survive on one of the lowest wages among the developed countries. And depending on which wage level you use, Singaporeans could have a poverty rate of as high as 20% ($1,500) or 30% ($2,000).

Things are looking pretty bad for Singaporeans.

Singaporeans Have Been Bullied by the Singapore Government for the Past 15 to 20 Years

It has been 15 years since Singaporeans were forced to accept low CPF interest rates of between 2.5% to 4% – or the lowest interest rates in the world.

Today, Singaporeans also have one of the least adequate retirement funds in the world, even though we contribute the highest proportion of our wages – 37% – into CPF.

Slide27

If 90% of Singaporeans are simply not able to retire adequately because we cannot meet the CPF Minimum Sum, then something is very wrong here, don’t you think?

Yet, the government would hang on to the unchanged CPF interest rates of 2.5% to 4% for the past 15 years (since 1999) and refuses to implement a minimum wage, but would only institute starting wages of a minute $1,000 under their Progressive Wage Model.

Yet, since the mid-1990s, the government would increase the CPF Minimum Sum to such a huge extent, knowing full well that Singaporeans simply do not have enough inside our CPF and will not have enough, to meet the CPF Minimum Sum! At the same time, wages for low-income Singaporeans have hardly increased at all!

Why would the government increase the CPF Minimum Sum while forcing Singaporeans wages and CPF to remain stagnant, on low CPF interest rates?

Why the government would do this is anyone’s guess, but the main question to ask – why did the government reneged on its responsibility to Singaporeans?

So for at least the past 15 to 20 years (or more – note the Medisave was created in 1984 and the CPF Minimum Sum in 1987, so maybe 30 years now?), Singaporeans have been signalling to the government that our CPF is broken, yet the government has not taken any credible action to increase our retirement funds. In its place, the government instead forced Singaporeans to pay more from our wages into CPF, reduce CPF interest rates and force Singaporeans to work longer.

Something is not quite right with the government’s planning when coming out with a solution requires Singaporeans to suffer, without any losses on the government’s part.

The uni-lateral victimisation of Singaporeans by the government has to stop. The security of Singaporeans is right now under threat by the current government.

3rd Edition Of The #ReturnOurCPF Event

On 23 August, there will be a third edition of the #ReturnOurCPF event.

Join us at the third edition and take a stand. The government cannot take Singaporeans’ CPF to use and tell us that they do not know what they are using it for. This is a derision to Singaporeans and daylight robbery!

On 23 August, we will see you at Hong Lim Park. Let’s come together, be united and speak for change, for the better for our lives, and our children’s.

You can join the Facebook event page here.

Also, my first court case will be held on 18 September 2014, at 10.00am. It will be a full-day hearing.

Return Our CPF 3 Poster Part 2

Return Our CPF 3 Poster Part 2 chinese

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82 comments

  1. The Oracle

    Yawn. The usual trick from Roy of only looking at individuals’ CPF cash and not total household assets.

      • microsoft furbee

        city harvest is not misue of funds your gov print money why buy singtel and cpf ?
        we dont want singtel and cpf we want topup bank card 900billion all?
        next why your gov dont open 40cpf atm counter deposit china thai india money withdraw citibank voucher?
        we dont want topup bank card print 900billion 1note give everyone
        why your commissioner of Charities (COC) and the Commercial Affairs Department (CAD) can investigate this coh?
        anyway is because of some of their members. now like i said they can collect back their money 250$ case close.
        your coc is a lawyer or the cad is a lawyer department next is a draft or a paper data.
        what happen if city harvest double the return back on the music?
        is a investment or they buy 11taps like 11nfk right?
        so why coc and cad lawyer department dont search 11nfk 27 sports council pool cause it should topup all the worker pay
        another is why dont coc and cad check hdb 750m why worker cann get 750m each? loan every month why worker cannot get 750m?
        next is who say singapore can break away from malaysia or who say malaysia can change british flag even the british soilder say can after victoria death kate never say anything even you give 100000cpf queen elizabeth kate never say you can change flag
        now kate say change back how? your change back? now worker party is gov why they cannot print sgd? why dont give everyone 100000sgd 1note? your lee buy 75% singtel share. why dont buy 75% share all company everyday? your bankbook can reset topup -900billion or loan 900billion everyday. why your lee dont change amendment but can print 100000sgd give queen race course road fort canning turn hotel. army camp special force keep world gold bar or lee? army camp fort siloso turn sentosa resort? victora statue take away from fulton hotel? park besdie your british grave? lee buy 75%singtel share topup 4m bank book with gst voucher and open 40erp 40sbs 40comfort 40airbus 40 4dpools singtel mobile broadband home boradband singtel mio tv bundles ipad promotions eservices. why all this you no check ? your kate diplomat cannot enter usa embassy your isd go in ask the security sit on the floor like your macdonald sch kids also ask them sit floor ic handphone put oneside and they complain radio bbc why your cad coc dont check change amendement give obama print 900billion 1note say need gold bar? your got time build airport T1 T2 T3 T4 750m hdb no time set deposit 1gold bar 900billion credit bonus 900billion hdb share. 1cent buy 1share sell 900billion posb voucher? or loan 750m every day for all worker pay and student fee taxi bus lorry driver nurse doctor teacher army police cleaner india worker pay. why you coc and cad dont check all this? and who say buy sports pool 4d pool shop nfk we say topup nest card or print 900billion 1note give everyone singtel cpf temeask bp macdonald and worker party and pap gov why cannot open bank print posb voucher deposit 5000sgd get 10000posb voucher another is why is your gov control loan like 100000 have to pay 200000 buy sell share 50% when 1gold bar can deposit 900b shares 1car can deposit 900b share like your singtel trade in contract. is the bank department to decided if they want to give chc funds and chc funds if happy can invest in city harvest. your coc cad can tell the people that complain ask them search nfk and 4dpools cause they build swim pool and nfk another is there is pen taps that they buy and pay worker when they dont need worker dont need tap just a counter like your grc collect donation. no one say nfk can buy taps table and worker is a grc with a toilet and pay hdb rent. the 200sgd can return back to the 10people or 17people if they not happy.
        your coc cad case can close cause city harvest choose to invest in money in cds cause like table and chair they think will help city harvest grow income like your income shiled your 4dpools your sponsorship in singtel your ntuc xpress cheers fairprice comfort taxi
        cause if its gov money all the money collect back posb we decide where its goes means posb manager clerk or commissioner of Charities (COC) and the Commercial Affairs Department (CAD) decide means it goes topup all your ezlink card 900billion with china thai land money why cause 4m food you need to grow daily and 50000sgd allowance for all worker and student and 750m loan to all company. if not russia drop plane war into any location how your cad coc cad going to protect or cover singapore? charities you open 11nfk and 27swim pool they buy 11cd and 27hollywood shares? your singtel invest in china player west player that is match fixing football 1:2 4:1 machester vs machester city that is gamble ing. if its advertis ment commerical city harvest spend donation money on advertisment your singtel also have miotv mio plan and they got girls giving balloon like f1 grid this all is not approvel by microsoft gov. kate queen. microsoft head of homeaffairs manpower mindef cpib cmpb iras ura arcra cpf gst psa singtel starhub m1 ntuc john little isetan walmart army airforce police fbi cia nsa nasa china india thailand radar satellite space radio tv internet station
        you can radio microsoft on your enterance security radio. or type to microsoft powerpoint facebook or type to usa whitehouse obama administration or you can type to kate middleton facebook or type to youtube angrybird or type to usa congress nsa department.
        your gov say usa owe money need gold bar and print london money we think your gov should just give their own people print money and we think your bank are controlling funds and price fixing shares they should have 40department 1gold bar 1silver bar 1computer 1car 1motobike deposit 900billion share give all worker 50000 10000sgd allowance. and all company can have loan 750m to all company. no just to your singtel temasek smu even if its gov or private not up to your lee to decide. even if they buy 27m share its fine 200 or you can tell bank to reset the bank account. cause lee buy 75%singtel share and can topup bank book with gst vouchers? means psa smu singtel macdonald microsoft can tax your pap worker party posb ntuc 900billion for internet fee gas food
        or japan can tax your for psp computer game 9000billion dollar gst voucher topup all your bank book. who say got gst voucher cause london should have gst voucher for kate and their people why they all owe money we believe your coc and cad are working with lee to ensure the west owe money and overseas so they owe and they go into debt. im microsoft isd department you can fax you resume to our department we dont have paper to operate or licence when singapore took independence no law means we go inside your house say you riotting case close. you should drop the case on city harvest they 17 people just tell them they dont donate money next time the city harvest can choose to invest their money and double their return even bankrupt cause your gov dont want to look after means put 750m monthly pay all worker 50000sgd ask them grow food or look after ntuc. means city harvest can put their people into ntuc singtel f1 and open 40outlet around the world and grow 4m food and open posb dbs bank top up west cash card 100000sgd. and they can change name to city harvest ntuc department chc income department chc comfort department. and look after 750m ezlink nets kopitiam card. you dont want them buy share deposit company bankrupt like aig lee men brothers how?
        your coc cod cover ? they need to pay bill for the church and ensure the church dont topple on people head when they pray and need to give food for poor. do only think we can do is ask them dont shake their head too much when they sing song but the afgan people shake head ask this church people go to mountain. and obama still send food to this people. and we owe money and obama cant print money your usa congress dont want loan how? obama usa congress can tax your usa bank 900billion. usa bank can tax obama and usa congress tax 50% pay 5usd topup cash card 900billion. who say cannot? posb voucher credit bonus visa dollar. sbs voucher topup posb card why cannot? comfort voucher topup community centre bankbook withdraw citybank voucher. who say cannot your gov keeping funds cause your people can open 40bank and give all this people money. why your coc cad not opening?
        cause 1300people died in gaza your court room hang 2kids with drugs we say its murder the kids think is vitamins they found outside floor bring back want to sell shop your gov have 270m cigarette. your coc and cad should open 40bank gaza give them gas food money 50000sgd ezlink card and go disney land israel ask them shoot blank 2week army not 3yrs and tell them go hawaii.
        and even its your department like nfk 1gold tap you can tell them dont buy gold tap install plastic tap. but they build 11more nfk
        and they need to pay their worker if they dont buy bank share and cds how city harvest going to cover their shop rent and worker pay? your doctor help brunei princess also she take her earnings buy her own company shares. your lee say the dividend cash all there. but now company go inside owe money how? we sue lee 900billion? cause your lee can print just pay la. case drop they can buy bank share cds like your ntuc income comfort xpress cheers and your nfk build 11nfk 27singaporepools turn stadium turn 4dpools turn president star charity. ya diff department not our deparment the chc bank company charity can buy what they want. your gov not happy ask them look after ntuc. for donation your 4dpools why give 4m china player how about west player how about open a bank print 4d coin. 1usd buy 4d coin topup 50000ezlink erp hdb dollar? like nsa department your collect info only if we not happy we go inside city harvest tell them your got to look after ntuc or posb. means all your worker open posb bank china give all the worker 50000sgd credit point bonus cpf gst erp ezlink ntuc dollar monthly topup cash card kopitiam card nets card visa emart safra. car radio on bbc. handphone on facebook voucher. computer on youtube angry bird. tell your police army airforce radio microsoft usa airbase area 51. or type to whitehouse fbi cia dea nasa nsa cpib cmpb singtel ntuc pap worker party isd sib sia sbs lta psa gst irs pub com mof moe moh man mas nxt ura cpf mindef. microsoft gov. kate queen.

    • Xmen

      Yawn. The usual trick from Oracle to divert the attention away from the dismal state of CPF savings.

      At least Roy stays on topic!

      • The Oracle

        I’m not saying that CPF couldn’t be better but we all know CPF is not the whole picture. Arguably the biggest issue/trade-off regarding CPF is that it tries to be too much: Pension safety net, insurance scheme, property financing, etc. It has enabled Singaporeans to achieve one of the highest home ownership rates in the world but it also means many are “asset rich, cash poor” as a result of being allowed to draw out too much cash to buy and finance their property.

        I’m happy to discuss this but Roy deliberately paints an over-gloomy scenario and ignores what doesn’t suit his (political)purposes – I guess that’s what you mean by Roy staying “on topic”?!

      • Xmen

        @Oracle,

        Yes, CPF is not the whole picture. But household income is also not the whole picture when cost of living is so high.

        Roy argues that CPF is failing its promise as a retirement vehicle. I believe he has demonstrated his points very well. If Roy is mistaken, his arguments would not have resonated with so many people.

        What is the point of telling a destitute old person that Singapore has high average household income? And there are many old people who cannot afford to retire with dignity today.

      • The Oracle

        @Xmen
        I’ve never denied there are many old people who need more help. What I have objected to is Roy’s questionable math that leads him to statements such as 90% of Singaporeans can’t afford to retire, etc. I also have objected to his complaining without being clear what his real solutions are. Complaining is easy!

      • Sgcynic

        Questioning people’s math without specifics is definitely easier. Dishonest. Mischievous. Despicable.

      • Xmen

        @Oracle,

        Believe me, I see your point. However, you are not seeing Roy’s points by being so defensive and pro status quo in your criticisms. I’m sure you mean well but you are failing to see the other side of the story. People criticize the jobless are choosy or whining since there are plenty of jobs around. Until they themselves get layoff and experience firsthand the difficulties facing jobless people.

        So be kind to Roy. His effort has already resulted in slight positive changes and I am sure a lot more will be done due to his advocacy. If I am to make a prediction, your CPF return will be significantly higher in the future years. You may not care but many people will benefit greatly from his effort.

        Best.

  2. tan

    As usual splitting hair to oppose the government to feed his hatred due to his defamation and subsewuent apologies and impending damages.

    • THE SIXTEN

      reply to ” tan ” and your prime minister:

      stop nonsense ,You first figure out what is the government ,
      Government elected by the people, Government by the people ‘s assessment, This is the government, otherwise the The gang leader.

      Government’s powers include the adjustment of social relations, the development of social welfare.

      In addition you got the huge salary , have you adjust an variety of social relations yet ? have you developed social welfare yet ?

      you ! no assessment , no plan for social welfare, no plan to built up an harmonious singapore.

      你不要胡扯蛋啦,你先搞清楚什么是政府, 政府由人民选的,政府由人民来评估的, 政府的交易要向人民汇报的,这才是政府,否则就是黑帮啦。

      政府的职权包括调整各种社会关系,发展社会福利等。

      你除了拿巨额薪水以外, 你调整各种社会关系了吗, 你发展社会福利了吗。

      你 ! 你不准评估, 又不计划还给社会福利,你根本不打算建设一个和谐的新加坡。

  3. Against PAP, support Roy.

    The usual rant from Oracle. If a person is paying mortgage for a 99year lease of a pigeonhold space in the air at exorbitant price, then that is not considered an asset but a liability.

    • The Oracle

      Rant? Someone rants when they go on and on manically about a subject as Roy does – my 1 line doesn’t qualify as a rant.

      And by the way, HDB units by any reasonable economic definition are assets when you can typically sell them for over $400,000 each.

      • Against PAP, support Roy.

        A discontinuous and frequent one-liner postings can also be considered a rant. And by the way, if a person is paying mortgage for the flat, it is still considered a liability, not an asset. For a $400,000 flat, you are paying the CPF board money every month at 2.6% interest rate for 30 years. If along the way, you got sacked from your job, then the CPF board can take back the flat from you.

        Mortgage is a loan, a liability, not an asset. Period.

      • Attention: The Oracle

        Can you please not be home tomorrow afternoon, 2.30-4.30pm
        I’m responding to your wife’s desperate pleas for a BIG dog.

      • THE SIXTEN

        to Prime minister LEE’s systerm, The Oracle, Lim, tan,

        Ten years, you just built an variety of charges system, another is Is habitually cutthroat system, besides this, You have been nothing to build , even no plan to establish.

        The reality is that you build a lot of bankruptcy, suicide victims and their families. such system pushed your people into the end of desperation.

        The number of victims of list has more than one million, if Lianhe Zaobao reported truthfully suffering to ensure a protection for the victims , don’t give them any pressure, it will help you see the truth.

        十多年来, 你们除了建立各种收费制度以外, 就是习惯性地割喉制度, 其他方面, 你们什么都没有建立,也不打算去建立。

        现实是,你们建立了大量的破产, 自杀等受害者和他们的家庭。如此的制度把人民推向绝路

        这个受害者名单的数量已经超过一百万,如果联合早报保证如实报道保护受害者的遭遇, 不再让他们受到任何打压,将有助你们看到真相。

      • The Oracle

        Duh! Accounting 101: Asset – Liability = Net Asset. Average HDB value: $422,000. Average HDB mortgage: $105,000. Net asset = $317,000.

      • jasmine

        @Oreo, your plucked from the air figures is disingenuous. The HDB cannot be considered an asset when it is your only home. To 90% of the population, this is the case. So what if the flat on paper is $400k? Doesn’t mean a thing to most people.

      • Xmen

        @Oracle,

        I am VERY INTERESTED what income is required to afford $422,000 HDB flat. Can you give me the percentage of people aged 25-30 who can afford such a flat? If these people can’t afford it, where will the net asset of $317,000 come from when they retire?

        BTW, the median price of an existing home sold in the U.S. in January 2014 was $188,900 (= SG $236k.) Does Singaporeans make twice the income as Americans to afford PUBLIC housing that is almost twice as expensive as PRIVATE housing in the U.S.?

      • Deaf Frog's Toothpick

        @ The Oracle

        like i said b4, averages are not meaningful, it merely achieves the effect of putting a coat of glossy paint on the skin of a rotting watermelon. it’s just the wealthy folks at the top pulling up the average by spreading the wealth around.

        even at average $422k, the financial conditions of those living in high value public housing like pinnacle@duxton vs a typical 2 room HDB flat is a difference of heaven and earth.

        even for the sake of crunching numbers,

        $317k you quoted is household asset value, the average HDB household size is around 3.19persons, that means each person’s share is about $99373,

        since cash balances can only be withdrawn after setting aside both the CPF Minimum Sum and Medisave Minimum Sum, the effective combined minimum sum is $198500 (155000+43500)

        what u have proved is that on an individual basis, 100% of dwellers in an average HDB household and all those below the average cannot met the combined minimum sum of $198500 if they were to monetise their flats.

        yes the number is 100%, your eyes are not playing tricks on you, no need to get them checked.

        the shortfall is 198500-99373 = $99127

        this gap cannot be bridged by existing average/median CPF balance, so even if we take that into account, 100% of average and below cannot met combined minimum sum.

      • Meiling

        @Oracle, how can you consider a flat an asset when you still owe the CPF board money? Do you know that the HDB can repossess your flat if you don’t pay up the mortgage? You are being devious trying to spread misinformation to the public, not just disingenious.

      • The Oracle

        @Meiling
        I suggest you take a course in basic accounting and finance. So long as the mortgage is less than the value of the HDB unit, the difference is an asset. And by the way, even if HDB repossesses a unit for non-payment of a mortgage, it will compensate the owner for the difference.

      • Xmen

        @Oracle,

        People don’t really think of their house as some ATM or savings account where they can take out money. So what if they can take out money, they still need a place to live. I don’t think the monetization idea will take off. Reverse mortgage is really not popular elsewhere. In many developed countries, old people are using retirement savings from pensions and other sources without resorting to selling their homes.

      • The Oriental

        I agree with Jasmine and Xmen. HDB is not an ATM machine where you can cash out as an when you like. People still need a roof over their heads. Of course, some ignorant or devious people like the Oracle would pretend not to understand the implication of not having a roof.

      • Sgcynic

        – Oracle, when caught out that you are white washing and conflating individual retirement shortfall with household income and HDB flat, you simply brush aside the issue and challenge others to take an accounting and finance course? Btw, when HDB repossess your flat, they will compensate the difference? Yah right, that’s why they were getting bank loans – banks DON’T compensate you.

      • The Oracle

        I understand perfectly well. There are though multiple options to monetize the value of a HDB unit for those that need to do so:
        – Downgrade to a smaller unit
        – Sell and move in with child
        – Rent out whole unit for ongoing income (and move in with child)
        – Rent out a room
        – Reverse mortgage
        – Lease buyback scheme or similar *
        * I understand a new scheme is being drawn up as the qualification criteria for the existing scheme are too restrictive and the scheme needs to be enhanced.

        It is more devious to pretend that the 92% of HDB households that are owner-occupied don’t have some options.

        And, as before, I’d like to see Roy propose real solutions (given his political ambitions) rather than just complain.

      • Sgcynic

        When the MRT break down, you have other options. You can choose to walk, run, take the bus or cab. It is devious to pretend that the commuters don’t have some options.

        STFU. When the train breaks down, it breaks down. It is devious to pretend otherwise.

  4. Mikechan

    1. Should be: how much interest must SingAporeans earn on THEIR CPF to be……. 2. 2nd line of 1st para…..able to withdraw any EXCESS monies out to use.

    Thank you Roy.

    Sent from my iPad

    >

    • Steven

      @”The Oracle”,
      I am working in night shift, i earn 1800 SGD, my manager earn 2800. so “The Oracle” talks income is not for normal Singaporean, only for government employees , Unless I make two jobs, working more than 15 hours a day, i am tired, I live less than 50 years old.

  5. THE SIXTEN

    reply ” The Oracle ” , also letter to Prime Minister LEE.

    Your newspaper is controlled by Temasek, your parliament, there is no voice for the poor class, and going through the perfunctory only. You are totally eliminate all communication channels. One young man on behalf of Singapore’s most unhappy class, how he matter, because he did a lot of work to copy the original file, offended you, And yet you want again to kill him, You wear a white gloves ‘s Killing habit had Already registered on the roster history of human crime.

    Many people see a slight of glorious from him, Is the only a child born from poor will be so fearless and simple, His father was not the same man like Mr. Lee Kuan Yew Directly gave to his son a Lifetime wealth, and everywhere superior treatment. by contrast, He was adored by long term suffering group and have been long oppressed groups, but He was besieged, headed by the Prime Minister and his powerful wealthy group.Lost a living job, aren’t you because senior powerful man forced the people by extremes meet you.

    he was the Prime Minister as the leader of a family of wealth and status siege, loss of livelihood work, do not you rich and powerful group of elders forced the people extremes meet you.

    On the contrary, the majority of the people stand up together, because all the suffering families underwent unfortunately period are the same

    Prime Minister Lee first cut his job, is Prime Minister Lee made ​​a negative example.

    你们的报纸,是受淡马锡控股控制的,你们的国会,是没有为穷人阶层发声的,走过场而已。你们根本完全杜绝了一切沟通的管道. 一个小伙子代表了新加坡最不快乐的阶层,他怎么啦,因为他做了大量的原始档案复制工作,得罪了吗, 你们就要再次杀人吗 , 你们带着白手套的杀人习惯早就在人类犯罪史的花名册上注册了。

    很多人在他身上看到一线光辉,是只有穷人家出生的孩子才会有的无畏和单纯,他的父亲并不是一位像李光耀先生那样直接给儿子一份获得终身荣华富贵, 并处处高人一等的待遇, 相比之下,他受到长期被压迫群体的男女老少的崇拜. 他被以总理为首领的荣华富贵一族围攻, 失去赖以为生的工作,难道不是你们这批有钱有势的长辈逼着人民物极必反吗。

    相反地,新加坡的人民团结起来了,因为所有不幸的人家受到的痛苦是一样的.
    李总理首先砍掉了他的工作,是李总理向世界做了负面的示范.

  6. cheepeng

    aiyohyoooooo ALL THE PAPs DOGS can leave this blog mah….sure sure ROY have the right to rant and complain and complain mah…just like the PAPs DOGS barking and barking here lor….ROY, petition that everyone of your supporter to give u a dollar a month, sure sure you can do it and have donors la…
    as for the barking dogs, go barks make my days….

    • The Oracle

      Keep your insults and LEARN that Roy’s right to free speech does NOT trump my right to free speech. You want real democracy? Then start practicing it!

      • Xmen

        @Oracle,

        I think you should direct your rant to the PAP government. Where is the free speech you are talking about in Singapore? Roy gives you more free speech here than what you can ever expect from the PAP government.

      • cheepeng

        Oracle,you want free speech issit? go to Hong Lim Park la, your father and mother never teach u arr…also, if you are a man, start a blog like Roy lor, sure sure i go visit you and give u free speech…you a dog i hear, so pity your father, mother and your grand father and mother and great great grands of the nine generation…ROY IS A HERO, HE STANDS UP TO SPEAK AND SHOW WHO HE IS AND FACE THE FORCE OF BRUTALITY AND BULLIES, and U lei, cowards, sure sure you are wearing skirt, show your face la, go to Hong Lim Park and BARK FOR YOUR MASTER, if not, why not leave this space and better still, go shaft a banana and jerk it out infront of your sister, if u do not have one, yea, jerk it out in front of your mother, you idiot , coward, and surely this is FREE SPEECH THAT YOU WANT!

  7. Abolish CPF - Give Us Back Our Money Now

    Vote opposition.
    It’s the only way to get back our CPF money.
    Abolish CPF and get back all your money today.

  8. THE SIXTEN

    One day, Prime Minister Lee will also grow old, or get sick, or will step down, by that time, he will look back and see , Most Singaporeans are such miserable, he will regret as he had failed to help his people, Especially aboriginal.

    有一天, 李总理也会老去,会生病, 会下台, 到了那个时候,他再回头看看, 他的人民如此痛苦,他也会为当初他未能帮助到新加坡人民, 尤其是原住民而后悔。

    • I Don't Think PM Lee Regrets The Misery of Singaporeans

      I don’t think PM Lee will regret if Singaporeans suffer.
      PAP sees Singapore as an industrial park.
      There is the Suzhou Industrial Park in China.
      The Republic of Singapore is really the “Singapore Industrial Park”.
      As long as the “Singapore Industrial Park” makes money.
      PM Lee will be happy.

      PM Lee’s heart does not see any Singaporeans..
      He only sees migrant workers (LKY calls it “digits) in the Singapore Industrial Park.
      Migrant workers can be Singaporeans, Filipinos or Indians.
      Does not matter to him.

  9. This Song Dedicated to our children -- Roy and Hui Hui

    Lift every voice and sing
    Till earth and heaven ring,
    Ring with the harmonies of Liberty;
    Let our rejoicing rise
    High as the listening skies,
    Let it resound loud as the rolling sea.
    Sing a song full of the faith that the dark past has taught us,
    Sing a song full of the hope that the present has brought us,
    Facing the rising sun of our new day begun
    Let us march on till victory is won.

    Stony the road we trod,
    Bitter the chastening rod,
    Felt in the days when hope unborn had died;
    Yet with a steady beat,
    Have not our weary feet
    Come to the place for which our fathers sighed?
    We have come over a way that with tears has been watered,
    We have come, treading our path through the blood of the slaughtered,
    Out from the gloomy past,
    Till now we stand at last
    Where the white gleam of our bright star is cast.

    God of our weary years,
    God of our silent tears,
    Thou who has brought us thus far on the way;
    Thou who has by Thy might Led us into the light,
    Keep us forever in the path, we pray.
    Lest our feet stray from the places, our God, where we met Thee,
    Lest, our hearts drunk with the wine of the world, we forget Thee;
    Shadowed beneath Thy hand,
    May we forever stand.
    True to our Singapore,
    True to our native land.

  10. Deaf Frog's Toothpick

    salary have to be measured against performance.

    when performance does not measure up, pay is revised downwards.
    ;

    weighing pros and cons are about making tradeoffs.

    tradeoffs would have to be measured against their outcomes.

    ;

    when the outcomes are bad, that means the wrong tradeoffs were made.

    and if the sum of the outcomes were good, why is the salary revised downwards?

    ;

    lets examine the outcomes,

    1. WORST floods in recent sg history.

    2. WORST unauthorised strike in recent sg history by CHINA bus drivers talents.

    3. WORST riot in recent sg history by Foreign Talents in little india

    4. WORST Mrt breakdown record in recent sg history.

    the PAP does not need 80-90% majority in parliament in order to govern, no party does. if a party says it needs SO MUCH power as to be able to change the constitution frequently or overrule the president at will in order to govern, then something is wrong with the system.

    the PAP used to have 97%+ majority in parliament, as seen from the outcomes(FLOODS, RIOT, MRT breakdowns, PRC bus drivers go on STRIKE), the high percentage of majority did not translate into good performance.

    well, I think the government has been misled or mistaken in some of its measures and i would like to point out inadequacies with a view of remedying such inadequacies.

    I have given them a lot of time, but the government has not been able to convince me that they are able to address these inadequacies, i think it is fair for me to attempt to procure change and improvement by lawful means by voting for more opposition in the next election to help the government.

      • Deaf Frog's Toothpick

        @ Jackfruit

        all the elected opposition MPs voted against the 6.9million population white paper, result was, it was passed in parliament.

        at it’s current size the opposition is not able to prevent the government from doing anything, obviously they cannot be responsible for anything they cannot prevent.

        according to your logic, #1-4 also happens after president Tony Tan was voted in, are u saying that it’s the president’s fault?

        u are suggestion that PAP government DO but, when bad outcomes happen, the opposition is the scapegoat.

        if that is the case of, u do, other ppl take responsibility, then NO NEED to pay a premium$ for PAP government, just hire my grandma to be government, because in your system any tom, dick and harry can do a sloppy job and pass the blame.

  11. Deaf Frog's Toothpick

    1. it is a fallacy to believe that building more MRT lines will solve our existing overcrowding problems. building a new station in Lentor will not change the passenger volume at Jurong East.

    2. it is a fallacy to believe that building more MRT stations will solve our existing overcrowding problems. building a new station in Canberra will not move the crowd faster at Yishun MRT, the bottleneck is the train frequency, we can build 3 stations between Choa Chu Kang and Bukit Batok, it will not move more passenger volume than now.

    3. it is a fallacy to believe that expanding roads by building more lanes will solve traffic problems, lanes are just spaces, the bottleneck is at the exit, if a road expands from 4 lanes to 5 lanes but the exit road is still 1 lane, we do not necessarily get to where we want to go faster.

    as we know many of the exit roads are not expandable due to the fact that they were never planned to allow for expansion, for those which are expandable, it’s highly challenging.

    4. it is a fallacy to assume that all the infrastructure we have is expandable to meet the demands of 6.9million, we did not even bother to do a feasibility study to check whether it can even service 5.3million RELIABLY, yet we decided to go for 6.9million by rushing it through in parliament within a short debate timeframe.

    i am not even convinced that the MRT can serve 5.3 million reliably, the breakdowns are still happening frequently, is it even designed to be able to operate at such frequency in the first place? if the answer is no, we are expecting it to operate at even higher frequency when the population is 6.9m? if the answer is also no, then your quality of life goes down.

    5. it is a fallacy to believe immigration can solve low TFR problem. immigrants eventually get old and add to the grey tsunami in greater numbers, then even more immigrants will be needed to “solve” the old immigrants. this is unsustainable.

    ;

    these are not solutions, i am highly unsatisfied by the quality of the solutions provided because the solutions do not address the problems.

    I think the government has been misled or mistaken in some of its measures and i would like to point out inadequacies with a view of remedying such inadequacies.

    the government has not been able to convince me that they are able to address these inadequacies, i think it is fair for me to attempt to procure change and improvement by lawful means by voting for more opposition in the next election to help the government.

    • Deaf Toad's Toothpick

      @Squealer:
      You don’t want to be domestic helper, bus driver with SMRT, construction worker, cleaner, correct?
      Then why complain if government hires someone to do the job.

      You want to be CEO but you lack the quality to do it. You want to be manager of MNC but you lack quality, so all you do is to complain.

    • Deaf Frog's Toothpick

      @ Squealer

      nobody wants to do the job argument is a fallacy, if we pay all doctors $900 a month, predictably there will be no takers for the job, then the clowns will say we need to get Bangladeshi to become doctors.

      it is a self-fulling ploy.

      this, including all the other nonsense is a straw-man argument and red-herring, if u can’t even respond to the point, don’t expect me to treat u as a human being.

      • Deaf Toad's Toothpick

        @Squealer

        Sure. Raise everyone’s wages. Give bus driver 4000, give cleaner 4000. Then the engineer complains because now a driver’s wage = engineer’s wage. So increase the engineer’s wage to 8000. Then the manager complains because now a manager’s wage = engineer’s wage. So increase the manager’s wage to 15000. Then the doctor complains, so increase the doctor’s wage to 30000.

        I guess you never understood the repercussion of just pure wage increase. Maybe that’s why you’re not even in the government.

      • Deaf Frog's Toothpick

        @ Squealer

        i am glad u r not in government, I did not suggest $4000, so you have made a straw-man argument. but since u r Squealer, your indulgence in the dark arts is to be expected, if u did not inflate the value to an unrealistic value of 4000, u have no argument. simple as that.

        why do u want to be stupid? gradually increasing the wages of those $1000 and under to $1500 is not a lot to ask for, for those earning $1000-1500, $2000 is a realistic target.

        even if the average engineer’s pay stay the same, there will still be a gap between an engineer’s pay and a cleaner’s pay at those values.

        Professor Lim Chong Yah suggested to increase the pay at the bottom and cap the wages at the top, I agree fully with him, I think that is a very wise move.

        eventually what did the government do? they only adopted the part that increases the pay at the bottom, so, u are barking up the wrong tree.

        according to you, those in government never understood the repercussion of just pure wage increase, because that is precisely what they did.

      • Deaf Frog's Toothpick

        @ Squealer

        the truth is, despite the differences i have with the government, we live on the same planet.

        as for u, u don’t live on the same planet as us because u have absolutely no clue of what is happening.

        u probably live on a farm inside a novel, or maybe a farm on pluto.

    • Deaf Frog's Toothpick

      inadequacies of the CPF

      1. Assumes that the large majority of the population can save enough for retirement. From the way our healthcare and cost of living is going, this is a big assumption.

      2. Assumes that when 1. fails, the property market can be inflated to make up for the difference$.

      3. Assumes that home “ownership” and the subsequent monetisation of property is a good strategy for retirement, which is not necessarily true.

      for the low income, it’s all eggs in the same basket tied up in an illiquid and potentially volatile asset(HDB). it’s almost like putting all retirement funds into property speculation.

      left on it’s own, property market goes in cycles, what happens when someone retires in a down-cycle? just curse his luck? the retiree obviously do not have the option to wait out the down-cycle. leaving retirees at the mercy of the property cycle is not a good outcome.

      in a ageing population like ours, large groups of low wage, similar aged folks will try to monetise at around the same time, if that happens the property market goes into over-supply and falls. strategy self-defeats.

      if over-supply threatens, political pressure might force the government to intervene in the property market to create artificial demand via immigrant influx, quality control of immigrants might be compromised because government will be stuck in dilemma between quantity and quality.

      if the government intervenes in the property market to create artificial demand via immigrant influx, and the process is mismanaged, it will result in a double whammy of depressed wages for the mid-low wage workers and high property prices happening at the same time.

      4. inflexibility, forces ppl to accept low risk-low return regardless of the person’s age and risk appetite.

      5. inflexibility, forces low-mid wage earners to accept investment(some say speculation) of the only property they have as a strategy for retirement.

      6. Inflation risk when returns either fails to beat inflation or when it does, it gives mediocre returns after accounting for inflation.

      7. Illogical, minimum sum pegged to inflation(some say average hdb prices) but interest rate not pegged to inflation.

      8. Illogical, minimum sum pegged to ageing but HDB lease not pegged to ageing. when life expectancy in the 1970s was 68+/- the lease was sold at 99 years, now the life expectancy is around 82+/-, the lease STILL sold at 99years, not logical.

      9. CPF funds are subjected to policy risk with little options for the member. when the rules keep changing (some say evolve), there is an element of uncertainty for the retiree, how do we expect ppl to plan for retirement when the system itself introduces uncertainty?

      10. Monetisation strategy requires high and ever rising rent+property prices, which is effectively borrowing from future generation (and immigrants), the low-mid wage earners loses out in this situation but wealthy becomes richer as they can afford to speculate in multiple properties as take in the profits in a soaring property market, monetisation strategy results in regressive wealth distribution and contributes to widening the wealth gap.

      ;

      I think the government has been misled or mistaken in some of its measures and i would like to point out inadequacies in the policies with a view of remedying of such inadequacies.

      if the government is unable to address these inadequacies, i think it is fair for me to attempt to procure by lawful means the alteration of the policies by voting in more opposition in the next election to help the government.

  12. fed up Lee Hsien Loong

    Lee Hsien Loong’s daily job is show off everywhere , waste the resources of our finance , seem don’t want to step down now ,we fed up him, did so many wrong thing, why don’t give Teo Chee Hean chance to replace him. he want to make second 10 million fortune , why we don’t launch signature campaign asking him to step down immediately . he stay there one more day, we suffer more,

  13. fed up Lee Hsien Loong

    actually, we don’t like the same person always be prime minister, means our life always be the same as the past , never change, look at his face, barely squeeze a little smile, that is not natural, he never solve a problem, but easy got the huge pay,In the end who is more greedy, everyone knows, can not think of a Prime Minister actually bully to a civilian, we vowed to take his mask off,
    we meet many pen pal here what a coincidence, we have so much in common even thinking,

    • PAP's Monopoly On Wisdom

      Does Lee Kuan Yew have the monopoly on wisdom about what is good for Singaporeans?
      Does Lee Hsien Loong have the monopoly on wisdom about what is good for Singaporeans?
      Does PAP have the monopoly on wisdom about what is good for Singaporeans?

      If not.
      Then why you believe all their nonsense about CPF, Minimum Sum and Minimum Withdrawal Age?
      Abolish CPF.
      It has outlived whatever usefulness it had.
      Just like Lee Kuan Yew’s “Hard Truths”.

  14. Pingback: Daily SG: 13 Aug 2014 | The Singapore Daily
  15. Jim

    @Oracle, don’t respond any more to Roy. You will only give him and his supporters chances to go on complaining and complaining.

    • @ Jim,

      @ Jim,
      Like you, confusion, no logic, for the nation’s destiny heartless person, just to satisfy your own bread.像你这样思维混乱,没有逻辑, 对国家命运没心没肺的人,只是满足你自己混饭吃。

      • LIM是政府的红颜知己

        是啰,她講話水準都不一個小市民,為什麼每个政府總理和部長的秘書都是女的, 她们每個像小市民一樣,跑出来替总理做发言人,搞到Roy没有工作做,还跑出来到报馆挖苦人家,害了人家, 还要看风景,连著名的作家讲话都被你们的红颜知己骂,都是政府的红颜知己干的坏事。 难道政府养的红颜知己是专门负责骂人的咩, 難道新加坡沒有男人咩 , 難道政府确保紅顏知己没有绯闻咩 !难道新加坡男人要被政府的红颜知己侮辱咩。

    • @ Jim,

      @ Jim,
      Is due to some confusion like you, there is no logic, heartless person on the fate of the country, just to satisfy your own bread, at this time, you do not need to sow discord, direct harm Singaporeans,

    • The Oracle

      @Jim
      Hi, I appreciate your input – and ignore the obvious bad attempt above by another individual to use my handle.

      I pretty much know I won’t convince Roy’s gang – they are too narrow-minded and full of hatred to listen to reason. It’s clear they don’t want a balanced discussion, they can’t handle criticism, and – yes- their favourite pastime is complaining! At this point most of what I write is actually for the casual reader who finds Roy’s blog and may not realise what/who they are actually dealing.

      Actually, Roy’s gang reminds me of The People’s Front of Judea from The Life Of Brian:
      Brian: Are you the Judean People’s Front?
      Reg: Fuck off!
      Brian: What?
      Reg: Judean People’s Front! We’re The People’s Front of Judea! Judean People’s Front, God!

  16. say truth

    The key point, when different political views, or many of reasons, if Employers dismiss a person , so the authorities must return CPF immediately to the unemployed, and ensuring that everyone has food to eat every day.

    If you say it is for Singapore politics purpose, to punish the unemployed, no rice to eat, this is simply put Singapore into slavery system.

    help Singaporeans, not only became Singaporeans schedule, is also the schedule of all who aspire to a civilized society in the world.

  17. Xmen and Roy, you make me proud

    Roy, I am grateful this platform, We all can freely discuss, Understand more and more the truth, When I see a lot of good articles, I firmly believe that the collective wisdom of Singaporeans , Is a source of great strength.

  18. The Oracle

    ” … if Employers dismiss a person , so the authorities must return CPF immediately to the unemployed, and ensuring that everyone has food to eat every day. ”
    @ August 13, 2014 – 5:06 pm

    This cannot be allowed.
    How will PAP government know if the employer conspire with the employee to bluff the government into releasing the CPF money?
    You want your CPF money back?
    Only way is to vote Opposition.
    I dare you.

    • yeow

      like this time , Roy’s case, he must get back his CPF from the moment he was fired, because the pressure of the Prime Minister, he needs rice now, any government must allow people have rice to eat before political punishment .

      • roy is rich

        Roy has 100k from donation.. No worry.. Everyday enough money to eat rice and chicken.. Oh travel to Norway to relax too ..yippe!

      • The Oracle

        @ yeow
        In the case of Roy’s dismissal.
        Very important not to release CPF money back to Roy.
        Is it not true that to dismiss means to punish?
        If true, then how will releasing CPF money back to Roy be a punishment?
        How can we tolerate bad behaviour in PAP country?

      • The Oracle

        Yet another low tactic – if insults don’t work then try using my handle to post fake comments? That’s just pathetic of you.

    • Xmen

      I’m getting confused who the real Oracle is. Please don’t pretend to be him.

      What Singapore needs here is unemployment benefit. This is very typical in all developed countries. Some countries provide up to one year of benefit to the layoff workers. During the Great Recession, the benefit lasted as long as 2 years in the U.S..

      There is nothing wrong about unemployment benefit. It helps to tie workers over until they find a new job. People need to feed their family and pay utilities whether they have a job or not. That is why unemployment benefit is part of social safety net in many developed countries. It is not free but it makes a better society.

      • reply to "roy is rich",

        reply to “roy is rich”,
        yes, that is the amount the kidnappers want, all knows now, singapore prime minister is the kidnapper 没错,就是绑匪要的量,所有的人都知道,现在,新加坡总理才是绑匪

  19. Pingback: Exposing the Myths in the PAP’s Education Changes: Wages Still Don’t Grow | The Heart Truths
  20. teoenming

    Singapore Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew and Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong Want Teo En Ming Dead

    Singapore Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew and Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong want Teo En Ming dead. Lee Kuan Yew and Lee Hsien Loong want Teo En Ming to die young. I am only 36 years old. I do not want to die young. I want to live to a hundred years old and beyond!!! I want to live to a hundred years old and beyond!!! I want to live to a hundred years old and beyond!!! I want to live to a hundred years old and beyond!!! I want to live to a hundred years old and beyond!!!

    In fact, I want to live forever!!!
    In fact, I want to live forever!!!
    In fact, I want to live forever!!!
    In fact, I want to live forever!!!
    In fact, I want to live forever!!!

    Teo En Ming has filed an official complaint against the Singapore Government at the United Nations Human Rights Council Branch and the International Criminal Court. Read the letter here:

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    Teo En Ming’s Open Letter (Plea for Medical Help/Assistance) to World Leaders dated 27 Aug 2010. Read the letter here:

    http://lists.mcs.anl.gov/pipermail/mpich-discuss/2010-August/007811.html

    Mr. Teo En Ming (Zhang Enming)
    Singapore Citizen
    Republic of Singapore
    14 Jan 2015 Wednesday SGT

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